Comments on: CON GAMES: Love The War You’re With http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/ Think Global : Post Local Wed, 19 Nov 2008 04:12:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Star Eagle http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2306 Mon, 12 Feb 2007 06:28:57 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2306 Interesting stuff but let me keep it very simple. The other day we punched in a destination in Denver on one of those Map-Quest sites and even though we did not put our address in.. it gave us a reply that started our quest three-tenths of a mile from the house. We live 2.5 blocks from where the map began. Simple, oh yea...way simple! Bottom-line alpha...its time to acknowledge the new milennium and its possibilities beyond the complex gobbly-gook you chose to over-rate by calling it...intelligence. Star Eagle Interesting stuff but let me keep it very simple.

The other day we punched in a destination in Denver on one of those Map-Quest sites and even though we did not put our address in.. it gave us a reply that started our quest three-tenths of a mile from the house. We live 2.5 blocks from where the map began.

Simple, oh yea...way simple!

Bottom-line alpha...its time to acknowledge the new milennium and its possibilities beyond the complex gobbly-gook you chose to over-rate by calling it...intelligence. Star Eagle

]]> by: reckless G http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2098 Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:30:22 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2098 Excellent reporting alpha6! If only our news media were as diligent as you in resourcing and exposing information that the public doesn't generally see. I don’t blaim specifically the Bush administration, as obviously this stuff has been going on for a while now. I have a healthy suspicion of all power, no matter the Party. Yes, I’m small potatoes to the Feds at this point, and hopefully I’ll continue to fly under their radar. While peace groups have been monitored and infiltrated by federal agents (as recently as a few years ago in Colorado Springs), I don’t feel in any imminent danger as an individual at this point. It’s more a matter of principle…so far. I have considered asking to see my FBI file if one exists, under the Freedom of Information Act, but…I’m not sure if I really want to know what, if anything they have on me! Excellent reporting alpha6! If only our news media were as diligent as you in resourcing and exposing information that the public doesn't generally see.

I don’t blaim specifically the Bush administration, as obviously this stuff has been going on for a while now. I have a healthy suspicion of all power, no matter the Party.

Yes, I’m small potatoes to the Feds at this point, and hopefully I’ll continue to fly under their radar. While peace groups have been monitored and infiltrated by federal agents (as recently as a few years ago in Colorado Springs), I don’t feel in any imminent danger as an individual at this point. It’s more a matter of principle…so far.

I have considered asking to see my FBI file if one exists, under the Freedom of Information Act, but…I’m not sure if I really want to know what, if anything they have on me!

]]> by: alpha6 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2097 Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:15:39 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2097 Reckless, You are correct and right on with your "where there is power, there is potential for abuse." And it takes place, a perfect example -"One Clinton scandal involves the discovery of over 900 Republican FBI files in the White House. Files of former Secretary of State James Baker, former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft, and Newt Gingrich's spokesman Tony Blankley were found to be on this list. Upon the discovery of these files, the White House issued an excuse claiming that the files were mistakenly requested by a White House employee working with an outdated list. They were called a simple "snafu." Investigations into Filegate revealed that not a common White House worker but the President's friend and close advisor, Anthony Marceca, had requested the files. I appreciate your outspokenness with regards to government control and abuse. I am a firm believer in personal rights and small government and as such attempt to educate myself on the actual abilities of the government and not the conspiracy or X-file Hollywood versions that many fall for. By knowing their capabilities and how they operate you can better equip yourself to exploit those weaknesses and vulnerabilities to your advantage. Lastly, unless you had an army behind you to implement your opposition ideas, I seriously doubt you are under any kind of surveillance. And if you were, it would only take about five minutes to discover it...but thats for another day. Reckless,

You are correct and right on with your "where there is power, there is potential for abuse." And it takes place, a perfect example -"One Clinton scandal involves the discovery of over 900 Republican FBI files in the White House. Files of former Secretary of State James Baker, former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft, and Newt Gingrich's spokesman Tony Blankley were found to be on this list. Upon the discovery of these files, the White House issued an excuse claiming that the files were mistakenly requested by a White House employee working with an outdated list. They were called a simple "snafu." Investigations into Filegate revealed that not a common White House worker but the President's friend and close advisor, Anthony Marceca, had requested the files.

I appreciate your outspokenness with regards to government control and abuse. I am a firm believer in personal rights and small government and as such attempt to educate myself on the actual abilities of the government and not the conspiracy or X-file Hollywood versions that many fall for. By knowing their capabilities and how they operate you can better equip yourself to exploit those weaknesses and vulnerabilities to your advantage.

Lastly, unless you had an army behind you to implement your opposition ideas, I seriously doubt you are under any kind of surveillance. And if you were, it would only take about five minutes to discover it...but thats for another day.

]]> by: reckless G http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2094 Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:09:00 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2094 According to my sources, everything alpha6 has written is correct, but it doesn’t change the fact that there is a program that can and is being used to monitor citizens. Where there is power, there is potential for abuse. The technology is improving all of the time, and when the National I.D. card law goes into effect next year, it will be even easier for the feds to have access to information on every aspect of our lives. People like you, who spout the company line, have no need to fear government reprisal. I on the other hand, being a vocal opponent of the neoCon agenda, have good reason to believe that I could be under surveillance. It’s not paranoia, it’s practicality. You wrote: “it casts such a wide net and gathers so much information, that there is a huge backlog and much of what is gleaned goes unanalyzed let alone worked.” That’s what I’m counting on. May it always be so! According to my sources, everything alpha6 has written is correct, but it doesn’t change the fact that there is a program that can and is being used to monitor citizens.

Where there is power, there is potential for abuse.
The technology is improving all of the time, and when the National I.D. card law goes into effect next year, it will be even easier for the feds to have access to information on every aspect of our lives.

People like you, who spout the company line, have no need to fear government reprisal. I on the other hand, being a vocal opponent of the neoCon agenda, have good reason to believe that I could be under surveillance. It’s not paranoia, it’s practicality.

You wrote: “it casts such a wide net and gathers so much information, that there is a huge backlog and much of what is gleaned goes unanalyzed let alone worked.”

That’s what I’m counting on. May it always be so!

]]> by: alpha6 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2084 Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:08:01 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2084 Um, no Reckless, I was right on. You however chose to zero in on the NSA program only, and while it is able to do what you say, what you don't know is that it casts such a wide net and gathers so much information, that there is a huge backlog and much of what is gleaned goes unanalyzed let alone worked. "Canadian ex-spook Mike Frost, there's a real problem sorting and reading all the data; while ECHELON can potentially intercept millions of communications, there simply aren't enough analysts to sort through everything. "Personally, I'm not losing any sleep over this," says Richelson, "because most of the stuff probably sits stored and unused at [NSA headquarters in] Fort Meade." (Please refer to my original comment regarding this exact thing) Also, the current system utilized by the NSA is a far better product then the original ECHELON and is classified but rest assured its capacities are far better then even the updated last known abilities of ECHELON. Also, your information regarding ECHELON targeting Amnesty International and "Christian ministries" is incorrect. What was reported in the London Observer was "the establishment in question being the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), Britain's version of the NSA. The operatives said that an intercept system based on keyword recognition was routinely targeting the communications of Amnesty International and Christian Aid. While it may have been the British equivalent of ECHELON, it was not our system and the ones that leaked the information were in fact British Agents. Lastly, COINTELPRO was a program of the FBI's and J. Hoover during his reign and was not at all like the current program. If you want links to all that I have written, let me know. I can back up everything I say. Um, no Reckless, I was right on. You however chose to zero in on the NSA program only, and while it is able to do what you say, what you don't know is that it casts such a wide net and gathers so much information, that there is a huge backlog and much of what is gleaned goes unanalyzed let alone worked. "Canadian ex-spook Mike Frost, there's a real problem sorting and reading all the data; while ECHELON can potentially intercept millions of communications, there simply aren't enough analysts to sort through everything. "Personally, I'm not losing any sleep over this," says Richelson, "because most of the stuff probably sits stored and unused at [NSA headquarters in] Fort Meade." (Please refer to my original comment regarding this exact thing)

Also, the current system utilized by the NSA is a far better product then the original ECHELON and is classified but rest assured its capacities are far better then even the updated last known abilities of ECHELON.

Also, your information regarding ECHELON targeting Amnesty International and "Christian ministries" is incorrect. What was reported in the London Observer was "the establishment in question being the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), Britain's version of the NSA. The operatives said that an intercept system based on keyword recognition was routinely targeting the communications of Amnesty International and Christian Aid. While it may have been the British equivalent of ECHELON, it was not our system and the ones that leaked the information were in fact British Agents.

Lastly, COINTELPRO was a program of the FBI's and J. Hoover during his reign and was not at all like the current program.

If you want links to all that I have written, let me know. I can back up everything I say.

]]> by: reckless G http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2079 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 19:23:40 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-2079 Sorry alpha6, but it seems you are the misinformed one. ECHELON is a global network of computers that automatically search through millions of intercepted messages for pre-programmed keywords or fax, telex and e-mail addresses. Every word of every message in the frequencies and channels selected at a station is automatically searched. ECHELON connects all these computers and allows the individual stations to function as distributed elements an integrated system. ECHELON can capture radio and satellite communications, telephone calls, faxes, e-mails and other data streams nearly anywhere in the world and includes computer automated analysis and sorting of intercepts. ECHELON has been used in the past for the targeting of peaceful political groups and has targeted Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and even Christian ministries. And let’s not forget the lessons of the COINTELPRO (counter intelligence program) of the 60’s aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the US. Our government and those of other countries have and will continue to invade the privacy of their citizens. That’s not fantasy, it’s fact. Sorry alpha6, but it seems you are the misinformed one.

ECHELON is a global network of computers that automatically search through millions of intercepted messages for pre-programmed keywords or fax, telex and e-mail addresses. Every word of every message in the frequencies and channels selected at a station is automatically searched. ECHELON connects all these computers and allows the individual stations to function as distributed elements an integrated system. ECHELON can capture radio and satellite communications, telephone calls, faxes, e-mails and other data streams nearly anywhere in the world and includes computer automated analysis and sorting of intercepts. ECHELON has been used in the past for the targeting of peaceful political groups and has targeted Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and even Christian ministries.

And let’s not forget the lessons of the COINTELPRO (counter intelligence program) of the 60’s aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the US.

Our government and those of other countries have and will continue to invade the privacy of their citizens. That’s not fantasy, it’s fact.

]]> by: alpha6 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1948 Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:08:34 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1948 Star Eagle you really make me laugh. Do you know what it takes to conduct a wire tap? Do you know the man power involved? I doubt it. I personally don't have time to educate you on all this. I don't have the time nor, do I believe after your continued insistence that there is some huge conspiracy out there and "they" are after you because they have nothing better to target, that you have a ability to understand anything about exactly how the process works with NSA super computers, network switches, T-3 boxes, OEO, funding, agency missions, entities within those agencies, let alone the layers of management and oversight of that entity that would have to all agree that the target is worthy of time, money and effort or anything else that would need to be conducted to just begin to work on a wire tap. What do you think, its a guy in a room hooked to a phone? Too much TV...hate to break it to you, but Hollywood ain't reality. However, let me make it simple for you. Just look at the number of people out there with phones, and then look at the number of federal agents (which is public record) that work for the government. Now lets suppose that they all stopped doing whatever they are doing and just decided to do wire taps, (which can't happen, but I am trying to make this easy for you to comprehend.) It equates to about two traffic cops to control all the traffic in New York. Hmmm....lets step out of our fantasy world for just a second and think about that Star. But who am I to discourage you. If you want to believe that the federal government has nothing better to do then to listen to Star Eagle talk to her friends about whatever, then you go ahead if thats what makes you feel important. Hey, its your world...we're just in it. : ) Star Eagle you really make me laugh. Do you know what it takes to conduct a wire tap? Do you know the man power involved? I doubt it. I personally don't have time to educate you on all this. I don't have the time nor, do I believe after your continued insistence that there is some huge conspiracy out there and "they" are after you because they have nothing better to target, that you have a ability to understand anything about exactly how the process works with NSA super computers, network switches, T-3 boxes, OEO, funding, agency missions, entities within those agencies, let alone the layers of management and oversight of that entity that would have to all agree that the target is worthy of time, money and effort or anything else that would need to be conducted to just begin to work on a wire tap. What do you think, its a guy in a room hooked to a phone? Too much TV...hate to break it to you, but Hollywood ain't reality.

However, let me make it simple for you. Just look at the number of people out there with phones, and then look at the number of federal agents (which is public record) that work for the government. Now lets suppose that they all stopped doing whatever they are doing and just decided to do wire taps, (which can't happen, but I am trying to make this easy for you to comprehend.) It equates to about two traffic cops to control all the traffic in New York. Hmmm....lets step out of our fantasy world for just a second and think about that Star.

But who am I to discourage you. If you want to believe that the federal government has nothing better to do then to listen to Star Eagle talk to her friends about whatever, then you go ahead if thats what makes you feel important. Hey, its your world...we're just in it. : )

]]> by: Star Eagle http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1947 Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:32:24 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1947 Yo alpha6, I can't believe you wrote.. "do you really think the government or anyone else for that matter gives a rats ass about your phone calls? Think about it". With all the news you have heard, and hopefully will continue to be hearing in the future, about "domestic wiretapping", all I can say is can you say...DENIAL! I am dissapointed in your perception of the OBVIOUS. That goes a long way in explaining how you have a hard time grasping the possibilities of another reality beyond yours in this whole "conspiricy thing". I just got off the "wire" that Rove is being subpoenaed for the Libby trial and the plot thickens. This story is getting very interesting. And there is more to come. I was telling all the Bush voters in 2004 that the best thing they could do would be vote against Bush if only because the legacy would be gone and these final years would be scandal and courthouse fodder for the (yeah right) left wing media. Bottom line is this thing is coming unraveled at the seams. Its time to quit whinning and come up with some solutions. Any ideas? Star Eagle Yo alpha6,

I can't believe you wrote.. "do you really think the government or anyone else for that matter gives a rats ass about your phone calls? Think about it".

With all the news you have heard, and hopefully will continue to be hearing in the future, about "domestic wiretapping", all I can say is can you say...DENIAL!

I am dissapointed in your perception of the OBVIOUS. That goes a long way in explaining how you have a hard time grasping the possibilities of another reality beyond yours in this whole "conspiricy thing".

I just got off the "wire" that Rove is being subpoenaed for the Libby trial and the plot thickens. This story is getting very interesting.

And there is more to come. I was telling all the Bush voters in 2004 that the best thing they could do would be vote against Bush if only because the legacy would be gone and these final years would be scandal and courthouse fodder for the (yeah right) left wing media.

Bottom line is this thing is coming unraveled at the seams.

Its time to quit whinning and come up with some solutions. Any ideas? Star Eagle

]]> by: reckless G http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1649 Tue, 09 Jan 2007 18:52:28 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1649 ACTUALLY…yes! As someone who visited Iraq under the sanctions (thereby breaking Treasury Dept. law), made phone calls from Iraq to home and vise versa, sends money via Western Union to the Middle East, and has been a general rabble rouser against the war from the beginning, the government might very well be listening to my phone conversations, or email, or blog entry! The problem with the Feds spying on citizens is not who they are obviously looking at (potential terrorists) but who they might choose to look at either now or in future administrations, and what they do with the information they gather. I’m no conspiracy theorist but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a fat file somewhere with the “evidence” I stated above. It wouldn’t take much for them to make a case against me, and I could get locked up for a long time just for being an anti-war activist…or as the Bush administration refers to us; “enemy of the state.” ACTUALLY…yes! As someone who visited Iraq under the sanctions (thereby breaking Treasury Dept. law), made phone calls from Iraq to home and vise versa, sends money via Western Union to the Middle East, and has been a general rabble rouser against the war from the beginning, the government might very well be listening to my phone conversations, or email, or blog entry!
The problem with the Feds spying on citizens is not who they are obviously looking at (potential terrorists) but who they might choose to look at either now or in future administrations, and what they do with the information they gather. I’m no conspiracy theorist but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a fat file somewhere with the “evidence” I stated above. It wouldn’t take much for them to make a case against me, and I could get locked up for a long time just for being an anti-war activist…or as the Bush administration refers to us; “enemy of the state.”

]]> by: alpha6 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1231 Thu, 21 Dec 2006 18:08:13 +0000 http://www.aspenpost.net/2006/05/29/con-games-love-the-war-you%e2%80%99re-with/#comment-1231 Nice link moehand. However, I doubt that the conspiracy wacko's are ever going to believe anything other then what they want...these are the same people that ACTUALLY believe that the "government" is listening to their phone calls. Unless they are a terrorist, and a dumb one that actually gets noticed by the government because of recklessness, do you really think the government or anyone else for that matter gives a rats ass about your phone calls? Think about it. Nice link moehand. However, I doubt that the conspiracy wacko's are ever going to believe anything other then what they want...these are the same people that ACTUALLY believe that the "government" is listening to their phone calls. Unless they are a terrorist, and a dumb one that actually gets noticed by the government because of recklessness, do you really think the government or anyone else for that matter gives a rats ass about your phone calls? Think about it.

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