Did Mel Gibson’s despicable comments about Jewish people prevent movie goers from attending his last movie? Not much. Was his movie considered for academy award contention? Yes. Was there outrage? Yes, there was some, and rightfully so.
How many insulting remarks have been made against many ethnic groups by well known individuals who managed to survive?
Don Imus made a regrettable comment referring to female black basketball players as nappy haired hoes. Yesterdays played-out black leaders – Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton – are at the gate screaming, “Off with his Head.” Do they reflect the black sensibility? The Rutgers Women Basketball Team are expressing their rightful indignation and will receive more apologetic pandering from the much humiliated and humbled Imus.
Who remembers the Tawana Brawley debacle that began in 1987? After an incredibly painful episode, it was eventually thrown out of court by a grand jury for lack of credibility. Al Sharpton led the charge, ruined some innocent lives, and never apologized. It was a humiliating chapter in Black politics. The self-righteous Mr. Sharpton never skipped a beat. He was, after all, a black man who continues to demand eternal recompense for the evils of slavery. Slavery will never be alright, nor should we ever forget. But, we must move on, cognizant of our past insults; for tomorrow is another day.
I’m afraid this is selective grandstanding around an unfortunate insulting remark that Imus has profusely apologized for. What about rap music? Have you listened to the repetitive words that encourage violence against women? The statistics tell us that such female brutality takes place every day in this country. We need not focus on the Middle East to find egregious instances of this outrage.
The guy made a mistake. He apologized. He got docked for two weeks. What more do they want? They want his head, along with his career. They want to profoundly punish him. Teach us all a lesson we will never forget. Do I dare say that Blacks have us in a politically correct vice that is so tight we can barely breathe. I’m not supposed to say that, I know. But why do listeners tune in to the likes of an Imus or Howard Stern? Could it be they crave candor and bold observations wrapped in insulting commentary because we are forbidden from engaging in honest dialogue. Some obviously find it titillating because it’s forbidden to express real feelings. This is not to suggest Imus’s prattle was worthwhile or responsible. We know better then that. But, it is to say that there is a need for these outlets or why else would these radio jocks be so popular.
Seriously, there are a lot more truly insufferable things to get upset about. How about those two young girls who were killed in a vehicular accident by an illegal immigrant who had already broken the law and should have been deported? Where is the outrage over that? Those girls are dead.
People of color should get real and start dealing with the serious problems inherent in their culture. They should also celebrate their profound accomplishments and progress clearly in evidence. These blame-game tactics are wearing thin and are unnecessary. They no longer need to resort to strategies that inflict bullying and intimidation. They’ve come too far for that.
Don Imus has learned his lesson. We all have. Let him get back to what he does. His public awaits his return.
Allow me to continue with the neat generalisations: “white” people need to get real and and start dealing with the theft of this land from the Native Americans who were here first and the theft of slaves kidnapped from their lands and the profit derived there from. Gee I know I shouldn’t say that, so utterly un PC, but alas with such expertise on what living as a person of color means or being Jewish, clearly the need to fire, socially discriminate, redline, and schedule the servants oh my isn’t that anachronistic I should have written the “help”, police and otherwise degrade those ingrates, has expired. Pretending that there is some magical magnanimity by virtue of being “white,” and preaching the Horatio Alger story for advice, with the masses of underfunded schools, lack of healthcare, blah blah blah….
Trying to be funny in this commentary with this overt or covert closet bigot is simply too taxing. Thank God not every person who is identified as being “white” has this condescending omniscience and attitude, but for those who do; turn on Idol and Imus or whoever and wait for the barbarians at the gates, remember “they” or “those” people are all people of color — lock your doors and your minds, you already have the answers you want, correct or not.
Allow me to continue with the neat generalisations: “white” people need to get real and and start dealing with the theft of this land from the Native Americans who were here first and the theft of slaves kidnapped from their lands and the profit derived there from. Gee I know I shouldn’t say that, so utterly un PC, but alas with such expertise on what living as a person of color means or being Jewish, clearly the need to fire, socially discriminate, redline, and schedule the servants oh my isn’t that anachronistic I should have written the “help”, police and otherwise degrade those ingrates, has expired. Pretending that there is some magical magnanimity by virtue of being “white,” and preaching the Horatio Alger story for advice, with the masses of underfunded schools, lack of healthcare, blah blah blah….
Trying to be funny in this commentary with this overt or covert closet bigot is simply too taxing. Thank God not every person who is identified as being “white” has this condescending omniscience and attitude, but for those who do; turn on Idol and Imus or whoever and wait for the barbarians at the gates, remember “they” or “those” people are all people of color — lock your doors and your minds, you already have the answers you want, correct or not.
Until the charges of the UNC Lacrosse players accused of raping a stripper were dismissed this afternoon, the Imus kerfuffle was all anyone was talking about. Naturally, there’s been a lot of tired-point-re-hashing…
Want a refreshing take? Read Kathleen Parker’s “Don Imus’ Via Dolorosa,” in which she writes:
“Black hip-hop artists have been denigrating the women of their families and neighborhoods for years with terminology that reduces all women to receptacles for men’s pleasure. Sharpton and Jackson would do well to direct some of their outrage to that neck of the woods.”
That’s a good place to start, even if a politically incorrect one. Just ask Bill Cosby.
Cheers,
Until the charges of the UNC Lacrosse players accused of raping a stripper were dismissed this afternoon, the Imus kerfuffle was all anyone was talking about. Naturally, there’s been a lot of tired-point-re-hashing…
Want a refreshing take? Read Kathleen Parker’s “Don Imus’ Via Dolorosa,” in which she writes:
“Black hip-hop artists have been denigrating the women of their families and neighborhoods for years with terminology that reduces all women to receptacles for men’s pleasure. Sharpton and Jackson would do well to direct some of their outrage to that neck of the woods.”
That’s a good place to start, even if a politically incorrect one. Just ask Bill Cosby.
Cheers,
Mitch,
I totally agreed with Bill Cosby, on this matter. I will never forgive Sharpton for the Tawana Brawley case, Jackson like many people was not content with keeping himself zippered, or in the case of women their petticoats on. That is no excuse for the rappers, bigots, racists or the prejudiced. The racist cultural heritage of America is why the res, ghettoes and barrios exist. Do you actually know the people about whom racially derogatory comments were directed that you heard or may have even said yourself? That exists in the boardroom, access to good public schools, loans to continue higher education business and housing, service at restaurants, promotions and the like. The problem is that this is not based on merit, undermining theoretical competitiveness of this country.
Mitch,
I totally agreed with Bill Cosby, on this matter. I will never forgive Sharpton for the Tawana Brawley case, Jackson like many people was not content with keeping himself zippered, or in the case of women their petticoats on. That is no excuse for the rappers, bigots, racists or the prejudiced. The racist cultural heritage of America is why the res, ghettoes and barrios exist. Do you actually know the people about whom racially derogatory comments were directed that you heard or may have even said yourself? That exists in the boardroom, access to good public schools, loans to continue higher education business and housing, service at restaurants, promotions and the like. The problem is that this is not based on merit, undermining theoretical competitiveness of this country.
TV and radio execs caved in. The I-Man has been fired. The rappers will continue to win Grammy awards and make millions. The double standard will remain in place. Without taking this mistake any further into ad nauseum, my only question now is, will Halle Berry’s new film still be titled ‘Nappily Ever After’? Just as Howard Stern managed to stay afloat with the life preserver tossed to him by XM radio, I know I haven’t heard the last of the I-Man, which makes me smile. I enjoyed his show for the most part, and the comments I didn’t appreciate went in one ear and out the other. I think America has forgotten that we have on and off switches on our TVs and radios. I wish the same could be said for Mr. Sharpton.
TV and radio execs caved in. The I-Man has been fired. The rappers will continue to win Grammy awards and make millions. The double standard will remain in place. Without taking this mistake any further into ad nauseum, my only question now is, will Halle Berry’s new film still be titled ‘Nappily Ever After’? Just as Howard Stern managed to stay afloat with the life preserver tossed to him by XM radio, I know I haven’t heard the last of the I-Man, which makes me smile. I enjoyed his show for the most part, and the comments I didn’t appreciate went in one ear and out the other. I think America has forgotten that we have on and off switches on our TVs and radios. I wish the same could be said for Mr. Sharpton.
There’s absolutely no credible evidence for what I am about to say, but I suspect this somehow comports with Imus’ plans to retire. This turn of events surely troubles him, but I don’t think he’s too upset about the fallout.
I would be surprised if he tried to resurrect his radio career.
Cheers,
There’s absolutely no credible evidence for what I am about to say, but I suspect this somehow comports with Imus’ plans to retire. This turn of events surely troubles him, but I don’t think he’s too upset about the fallout.
I would be surprised if he tried to resurrect his radio career.
Cheers,
What we all know is coming is “Hate Laws” that will ban any and all speech that may hurt other people’s feelings.
This government is already trying to pass “Hate Laws” even though most Americans do not want them here, they try every year and get closer and closer to passing these Costitutional destroying laws.
We must be aware of what is really going on here.
For example;
House Approves
‘Anti-Hate’ Bill
Freedom Of Speech Now In Jeopardy
Passage Of Thought Crimes Bill
Spells Doom To Free Talk Radio
By Rev. Ted Pike
In a surprising move, the House of Representatives on September 14, 2005 approved “The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005,” HR2662, as an amendment to the Children’S Safety Act, HR3132. It was approved 223-199.
The Senate is expected to also approve a similar amendment within a month.
This federal legislation, orchestrated by the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith will lead to creation of a vast anti-hate bureaucracy in America, similar to what now exists in Canada. In Canada it is a “hate crime” to publicly criticize such federally protected groups as homosexuals and Jews. In Canada free speech talk radio no longer exists. It is even illegal now in some areas to evangelize or “proselytize” in public.
HR2662, S1145, while ostensibly punishing only violent hate crimes, nevertheless creates an anti-hate bureaucracy through several means:
1. It breaks down all barriers between federal and states, rights in law enforcement. It allows federal “thought police” to meddle, upon the flimsiest of pretexts, in states, enforcement of civil rights laws.
2. It requires all states to pass and enforce ADL-style anti-hate laws.
3. It enforces nationwide the working ADL definition of “hate” as being “bias” against federally protected groups, such as homosexuals. Such automatically makes the Bible into “hate literature” and preaching from it into “hate speech.” Result: Bible-believing Christians become potential hate criminals.
The nation was aghast last October 10th when the ADL’S national executive board member, Lynne Abraham, D.A. of Philadelphia, arrested 11 Christians as hate criminals. Her charge: Their preaching was “biased” against homosexuals. They were “hate criminals” because they used an “instrument of crime” (a megaphone) to express “hate speech,” (Bible verses) against homosexuals.
If this “big brother legislation” becomes law, the ADL and federal government will, through enabling legislation and judicial precedents, be exponentially empowered to indict Christians. Pastors, talk show hosts, publishers, critics of Israel, etc. will be liable to arrest just like the Philadelphia Eleven.
THERE’S STILL TIME TO PROTEST
Approval by the House last week does not mean that the members of the House or Senate, by granting approval, will have cast their final vote on this Orwellian legislation. Approving an amendment to a bill is not the same as passing a bill on its own terms. Final approval will come only after conference between the House and Senate decides whether this hate bill, in amendment form, should be included in passage of a children’S protection bill. Until then, members of the House and Senate are free to change their votes. It is vital that all lovers of freedom and free speech protest now!
Last spring, on June 15, this same legislation was approved by the Senate in amendment form. However, largely as a result of non-stop, wide publicity against it by the National Prayer Network, and many talk-show hosts, it was defeated in conference between the House and Senate on Oct 8, 2004. The same can happen again if Americans will raise a holy howl of protest against the theft of our First Amendment freedoms.
_____
To protest to your members of Congress, call toll free 1-877-762-8762.
It is time to get educated fast on the dangers of hate crime legislation.
What we all know is coming is “Hate Laws” that will ban any and all speech that may hurt other people’s feelings.
This government is already trying to pass “Hate Laws” even though most Americans do not want them here, they try every year and get closer and closer to passing these Costitutional destroying laws.
We must be aware of what is really going on here.
For example;
House Approves
‘Anti-Hate’ Bill
Freedom Of Speech Now In Jeopardy
Passage Of Thought Crimes Bill
Spells Doom To Free Talk Radio
By Rev. Ted Pike
In a surprising move, the House of Representatives on September 14, 2005 approved “The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005,” HR2662, as an amendment to the Children’S Safety Act, HR3132. It was approved 223-199.
The Senate is expected to also approve a similar amendment within a month.
This federal legislation, orchestrated by the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith will lead to creation of a vast anti-hate bureaucracy in America, similar to what now exists in Canada. In Canada it is a “hate crime” to publicly criticize such federally protected groups as homosexuals and Jews. In Canada free speech talk radio no longer exists. It is even illegal now in some areas to evangelize or “proselytize” in public.
HR2662, S1145, while ostensibly punishing only violent hate crimes, nevertheless creates an anti-hate bureaucracy through several means:
1. It breaks down all barriers between federal and states, rights in law enforcement. It allows federal “thought police” to meddle, upon the flimsiest of pretexts, in states, enforcement of civil rights laws.
2. It requires all states to pass and enforce ADL-style anti-hate laws.
3. It enforces nationwide the working ADL definition of “hate” as being “bias” against federally protected groups, such as homosexuals. Such automatically makes the Bible into “hate literature” and preaching from it into “hate speech.” Result: Bible-believing Christians become potential hate criminals.
The nation was aghast last October 10th when the ADL’S national executive board member, Lynne Abraham, D.A. of Philadelphia, arrested 11 Christians as hate criminals. Her charge: Their preaching was “biased” against homosexuals. They were “hate criminals” because they used an “instrument of crime” (a megaphone) to express “hate speech,” (Bible verses) against homosexuals.
If this “big brother legislation” becomes law, the ADL and federal government will, through enabling legislation and judicial precedents, be exponentially empowered to indict Christians. Pastors, talk show hosts, publishers, critics of Israel, etc. will be liable to arrest just like the Philadelphia Eleven.
THERE’S STILL TIME TO PROTEST
Approval by the House last week does not mean that the members of the House or Senate, by granting approval, will have cast their final vote on this Orwellian legislation. Approving an amendment to a bill is not the same as passing a bill on its own terms. Final approval will come only after conference between the House and Senate decides whether this hate bill, in amendment form, should be included in passage of a children’S protection bill. Until then, members of the House and Senate are free to change their votes. It is vital that all lovers of freedom and free speech protest now!
Last spring, on June 15, this same legislation was approved by the Senate in amendment form. However, largely as a result of non-stop, wide publicity against it by the National Prayer Network, and many talk-show hosts, it was defeated in conference between the House and Senate on Oct 8, 2004. The same can happen again if Americans will raise a holy howl of protest against the theft of our First Amendment freedoms.
_____
To protest to your members of Congress, call toll free 1-877-762-8762.
It is time to get educated fast on the dangers of hate crime legislation.
This is all so patently ridiculous! Have any of you ever seen a black comedian making fun of whitey, calling us “crackers” and parodying the way white men dance or speak? It’s ok for “them” to make fun of “us” but it’s politically incorrect and outrageous for “us” to make fun of “them.” Come off it , everyone is prejudiced, everyone’s a bigot from time to time. Blacks, Native Americans and Jews are not the only ones getting the shitty end of the stick. I lived in Hawaii for a number of years, and I can tell you as a white girl living in a non-white culture that I experienced prejudice and bigotry. Should I carry a chip on my shoulder for the rest of my life because of it?
Let’s not forget that we are first and foremost, animals. Like almost all other species, we make judgements on appearance in order to assess possible danger. Granted, those assessments are frequently wrong, but we can’t help ourselves from letting them enter our minds. What we can do is not speak them or act them out, at least until we have investigated the situation further. But to chastise a comedian, yes Don Imus is a comedian, an entertainer, for making a lame joke at the expense of the feelings of the African-American community is just nonsense.
With all of the real injustice, pain and suffering in the world caused by actual bigotry, to make an example of this pathetic instance is just disgusting.
This is all so patently ridiculous! Have any of you ever seen a black comedian making fun of whitey, calling us “crackers” and parodying the way white men dance or speak? It’s ok for “them” to make fun of “us” but it’s politically incorrect and outrageous for “us” to make fun of “them.” Come off it , everyone is prejudiced, everyone’s a bigot from time to time. Blacks, Native Americans and Jews are not the only ones getting the shitty end of the stick. I lived in Hawaii for a number of years, and I can tell you as a white girl living in a non-white culture that I experienced prejudice and bigotry. Should I carry a chip on my shoulder for the rest of my life because of it?
Let’s not forget that we are first and foremost, animals. Like almost all other species, we make judgements on appearance in order to assess possible danger. Granted, those assessments are frequently wrong, but we can’t help ourselves from letting them enter our minds. What we can do is not speak them or act them out, at least until we have investigated the situation further. But to chastise a comedian, yes Don Imus is a comedian, an entertainer, for making a lame joke at the expense of the feelings of the African-American community is just nonsense.
With all of the real injustice, pain and suffering in the world caused by actual bigotry, to make an example of this pathetic instance is just disgusting.
You are very right, but the “thought police” is coming, and it is by design. Nothing is by accident.
You are very right, but the “thought police” is coming, and it is by design. Nothing is by accident.
To Reckless G: Thank you for your response to my blog. Your observations are astute and definitely in keeping with my point-of-view. I appreciate your feedback.
To Reckless G: Thank you for your response to my blog. Your observations are astute and definitely in keeping with my point-of-view. I appreciate your feedback.
[You are very right, but the "thought police" is coming, and it is by design. Nothing is by accident.]
You may be right.
Now, apparently, Sharpton’s got rappers in his crosshairs. The Detroit Free Press quotes Sharpton, “We will not stop until we make it clear that no one should denigrate women… We must deal with the fact that ho and the b-word are words that are wrong from anybody’s lips.”
I remember the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) back in the mid-80s tried to do the same thing with sexually explicit lyrics.
Cheers,
[You are very right, but the "thought police" is coming, and it is by design. Nothing is by accident.]
You may be right.
Now, apparently, Sharpton’s got rappers in his crosshairs. The Detroit Free Press quotes Sharpton, “We will not stop until we make it clear that no one should denigrate women… We must deal with the fact that ho and the b-word are words that are wrong from anybody’s lips.”
I remember the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) back in the mid-80s tried to do the same thing with sexually explicit lyrics.
Cheers,
“Let’s not forget that we are first and foremost, animals. Like almost all other species, we make judgements on appearance in order to assess possible danger. Granted, those assessments are frequently wrong, but we can’t help ourselves from letting them enter our minds. What we can do is not speak them or act them out, at least until we have investigated the situation further.” — Sue Gray aka Reckless G
Hmmmm?…. well, I guess this particular man animal, who happens to be at the top tier of the “animal kingom”… a man animal with an intellect thousands times greater than other animals in the world, … one who has lived a life based full of personally chosen actions and personal choices that not only affected me, but others, a man animal who lives with the ramifications of all those choices made previously, and all those I’ll make ahead of me.
You telling this “man animal” that we, supposedly like all other animals, “make judgements based on appearance in order to assess possible dangers” ????
What Pomegranite seeds have you been munchin’ on lately? For crying out loud! Someone please throw me back into the @#%!#$ turnip truck~!!!
I’ll go on record right here little lady and glady say that I, as being thankful that God actually granted me Dominion over animals (its in the Bible, kinda cool story actually) and gave me heart and a soul and a conscience and widom and the ablity to think and act and choose as I think appropriate.
In summary, I’m proud that I easily choose NOT to “make judgements based on appearances in order to assess a possible danger.”
You are a smart person Sue Gray. But I gotta hang that particular statement out on the clothesline and beat it with a broom for a while. How incredibly provencialistic and closed minded and shortsighted that generality is.
I’m no animal. My black friends ain’t animals either.. nor are my Jewish friends, my Hispanic friends, my Asian friends, etc. God gave them the same social and intellectual ability I was given. You know why I consider them friends? …. becuase they, too, don’t judge me by my apprearance. They accept me as who I am, its called mutual respect and understanding.
Thats what its all about in my opinion.
Break a leg. — J
“Let’s not forget that we are first and foremost, animals. Like almost all other species, we make judgements on appearance in order to assess possible danger. Granted, those assessments are frequently wrong, but we can’t help ourselves from letting them enter our minds. What we can do is not speak them or act them out, at least until we have investigated the situation further.” — Sue Gray aka Reckless G
Hmmmm?…. well, I guess this particular man animal, who happens to be at the top tier of the “animal kingom”… a man animal with an intellect thousands times greater than other animals in the world, … one who has lived a life based full of personally chosen actions and personal choices that not only affected me, but others, a man animal who lives with the ramifications of all those choices made previously, and all those I’ll make ahead of me.
You telling this “man animal” that we, supposedly like all other animals, “make judgements based on appearance in order to assess possible dangers” ????
What Pomegranite seeds have you been munchin’ on lately? For crying out loud! Someone please throw me back into the @#%!#$ turnip truck~!!!
I’ll go on record right here little lady and glady say that I, as being thankful that God actually granted me Dominion over animals (its in the Bible, kinda cool story actually) and gave me heart and a soul and a conscience and widom and the ablity to think and act and choose as I think appropriate.
In summary, I’m proud that I easily choose NOT to “make judgements based on appearances in order to assess a possible danger.”
You are a smart person Sue Gray. But I gotta hang that particular statement out on the clothesline and beat it with a broom for a while. How incredibly provencialistic and closed minded and shortsighted that generality is.
I’m no animal. My black friends ain’t animals either.. nor are my Jewish friends, my Hispanic friends, my Asian friends, etc. God gave them the same social and intellectual ability I was given. You know why I consider them friends? …. becuase they, too, don’t judge me by my apprearance. They accept me as who I am, its called mutual respect and understanding.
Thats what its all about in my opinion.
Break a leg. — J
maybe your taking it a little to personally Jon?
Im a non-religous Christian and wasnt offended by Sue’s thoughts.
Im more upset about the thought police that will stop you and me and everyone from saying your peace than what Sue said about us being animals.
Back to the Thought Police…..if your thoughts and speech are against homosexuals or sudo-Jews or greedy, lying government officals (the same ones Christ got angry over) the same ones who lie and murder and torture others in the name of Christ and God, the same ones named in the Bible as evil, then you will be under the juristiction of this government……..
then, my friend, you will need your God to help you, if you don’t already now.
you should go to http://www.copwatch.com forums and see what the police are arresting Freedom Loving Citizens for.
I dont think you have a clue.
forgive my spelling problems, I have dyslexia and my format is wrong sometimes.
maybe your taking it a little to personally Jon?
Im a non-religous Christian and wasnt offended by Sue’s thoughts.
Im more upset about the thought police that will stop you and me and everyone from saying your peace than what Sue said about us being animals.
Back to the Thought Police…..if your thoughts and speech are against homosexuals or sudo-Jews or greedy, lying government officals (the same ones Christ got angry over) the same ones who lie and murder and torture others in the name of Christ and God, the same ones named in the Bible as evil, then you will be under the juristiction of this government……..
then, my friend, you will need your God to help you, if you don’t already now.
you should go to http://www.copwatch.com forums and see what the police are arresting Freedom Loving Citizens for.
I dont think you have a clue.
forgive my spelling problems, I have dyslexia and my format is wrong sometimes.
Jon,
I have to agree with infowars… Sue’s comments were straight up.
A few years ago, during a discussion of creationism, a friend of mine declared, “We’re just apes with attitudes.”
I walked around pissed-off for days, not merely because this idea doesn’t comport with my views, but because on some level I know it to be true.
Frankly, the more I pay attention to the political landscape and the evolution of social sensibilities, the more I see the attraction to the idea that humans are just animals, very high-thinking, socially-complex animals.
While from this view it is hard to explain Keat’s “Ode to a Grecian Urn,” Mahler’s “Das Leid von der Erde,” Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, the computer, or the New York City skyline without the WTC, it’s easy for me to see how an allegiance to a political view might satisfy the void of human spirituality.
Cheers,
Jon,
I have to agree with infowars… Sue’s comments were straight up.
A few years ago, during a discussion of creationism, a friend of mine declared, “We’re just apes with attitudes.”
I walked around pissed-off for days, not merely because this idea doesn’t comport with my views, but because on some level I know it to be true.
Frankly, the more I pay attention to the political landscape and the evolution of social sensibilities, the more I see the attraction to the idea that humans are just animals, very high-thinking, socially-complex animals.
While from this view it is hard to explain Keat’s “Ode to a Grecian Urn,” Mahler’s “Das Leid von der Erde,” Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, the computer, or the New York City skyline without the WTC, it’s easy for me to see how an allegiance to a political view might satisfy the void of human spirituality.
Cheers,
If you think no better than animals you might as well be considered one and if your that is limited to appearance, then if what is relevant to you about me is my morphology then you are the idiot, and that is quite charitable considering the intelligence of the animals under consideration.
So, here is your pity party, for not being able to enjoy your collective bigotry, in intellectual and polite company. Those of you who insult the intelligence of humanity, by citing the towering intellects in the rapper world as excuses for your own base and vulgar opinions, paid or not, genuinely demonstrate defective genetic material. Boo Hoo.
If you think no better than animals you might as well be considered one and if your that is limited to appearance, then if what is relevant to you about me is my morphology then you are the idiot, and that is quite charitable considering the intelligence of the animals under consideration.
So, here is your pity party, for not being able to enjoy your collective bigotry, in intellectual and polite company. Those of you who insult the intelligence of humanity, by citing the towering intellects in the rapper world as excuses for your own base and vulgar opinions, paid or not, genuinely demonstrate defective genetic material. Boo Hoo.
Yes troy, your a perfect target for the Armys recruitors, watch out my friend.
They are in desperation of people with your trian of thoughts to the matter.
They need them for Iran.
Yes troy, your a perfect target for the Armys recruitors, watch out my friend.
They are in desperation of people with your trian of thoughts to the matter.
They need them for Iran.
Maybe I have this all wrong. I should just enjoy all my whiteys, niggers, kikes, spics, redskins. Look they are just words, and so is stupid, and they don’t mean anything. You got that stupid. I don’t mean anyone in particular, they are just words. I can’t imagine that anyone would be bothered if I called them stupid or stoopid or stoopider, They jus werds. Maybe language is just stoopiderest. ONe thing about Aspen, you doesn’t hav to be smart man to be trash.
Those of you who were interested in meaningful dialog, instead of lamenting the loss of some bigotry this brings up, I commend you, it is what makes us human.
Maybe I have this all wrong. I should just enjoy all my whiteys, niggers, kikes, spics, redskins. Look they are just words, and so is stupid, and they don’t mean anything. You got that stupid. I don’t mean anyone in particular, they are just words. I can’t imagine that anyone would be bothered if I called them stupid or stoopid or stoopider, They jus werds. Maybe language is just stoopiderest. ONe thing about Aspen, you doesn’t hav to be smart man to be trash.
Those of you who were interested in meaningful dialog, instead of lamenting the loss of some bigotry this brings up, I commend you, it is what makes us human.
[I guess this particular man animal, who happens to be at the top tier of the "animal kingom"... a man animal with an intellect thousands times greater than other animals in the world, ...]
What makes you so sure of that? The Bible? Yeah it’s a nice history book for the past six thousand years, but what of the millions of years of human evolution that preceded it? We are animals, upright walking mammals that breathe, eat, sleep, shit, and procreate just like all of the other mammals on the planet. And like it our not, our reptilian brain makes snap judgements on appearance. Then it’s up to our higher brain to take over and use restraint and reason. Sometimes we flub it and say something stupid. Then it’s up to other people’s higher brains to forgive, just as Christ instructed us. I don’t remember anything in the Bible about punishing those who offend us with their words. In fact that sounds fairly Taliban-ish and definitely not worthy of a nation that claims to represent freedom.
[I guess this particular man animal, who happens to be at the top tier of the "animal kingom"... a man animal with an intellect thousands times greater than other animals in the world, ...]
What makes you so sure of that? The Bible? Yeah it’s a nice history book for the past six thousand years, but what of the millions of years of human evolution that preceded it? We are animals, upright walking mammals that breathe, eat, sleep, shit, and procreate just like all of the other mammals on the planet. And like it our not, our reptilian brain makes snap judgements on appearance. Then it’s up to our higher brain to take over and use restraint and reason. Sometimes we flub it and say something stupid. Then it’s up to other people’s higher brains to forgive, just as Christ instructed us. I don’t remember anything in the Bible about punishing those who offend us with their words. In fact that sounds fairly Taliban-ish and definitely not worthy of a nation that claims to represent freedom.
Your comments amaze me Mitch… as do Ed Troy’s. I didn’t meant to take that one paragraph comment from Sue and create something. I thought it editorially kinda cool to just clue in on that comment and relate it to me and my thoughts, my experiences, my beliefs.
Let me go on record here and say that I DID NOT take that particular few sentences too personally, at all.. and I’m sorry if it was read and interpreted that way. I simply wanted to expand upon it, in a way that disagreed with the statement itself. I wasn’t offended in the least.
I’m at a point in life that because I believe in something, that the belief has made me a better man. Don’t get me wrong, I doubt and challenge much of what I see and alot of what I choose to believe. But I believe there is something greater out there than myself, and its that challenge and question that will reward me ultimately as I continue to find the answers.
Infowars made a comment to Ed that his idealogy was perfect protocol and ambition to get Ed to head to Iran.
Yes, perhaps my life, choices, actions and militarily perfect match led to me spending two years in Special Forces, after college. That was 16 years ago, but still very real in my rhealm of understanding. The experience also factors into my present day comprehension of reality. It also urges/motivates me to understand and possibly accept that there is more,… more that I don’t understand, yet more that I will forever want to try to understand.
All I can do, all I can manage, all that I can accept, all that I make a difference thereunto is that which I can understand. I’ll be honest, I’ve given alot of what I don’t understand up to something called Faith (which I define as that which is the subtance of things hoped for, and perhaps the evidence of things unseen.)
I’ve seen alot in this @$#@% up world. I don’t understand it. But I can control and manage myself and what perhaps I can do to make this world better… which I think God wants me to do. (Surely someone out there can relate to that?)
I think we all eventually have to truly believe in something greater than ourselves, or we’d perhaps never understand ourselves and this world.
Whats the old saying?…. “you have to stand for something or you will fall for anything? Hmm?
Sue, I admire that you stand for what you do. FYI. — J
Your comments amaze me Mitch… as do Ed Troy’s. I didn’t meant to take that one paragraph comment from Sue and create something. I thought it editorially kinda cool to just clue in on that comment and relate it to me and my thoughts, my experiences, my beliefs.
Let me go on record here and say that I DID NOT take that particular few sentences too personally, at all.. and I’m sorry if it was read and interpreted that way. I simply wanted to expand upon it, in a way that disagreed with the statement itself. I wasn’t offended in the least.
I’m at a point in life that because I believe in something, that the belief has made me a better man. Don’t get me wrong, I doubt and challenge much of what I see and alot of what I choose to believe. But I believe there is something greater out there than myself, and its that challenge and question that will reward me ultimately as I continue to find the answers.
Infowars made a comment to Ed that his idealogy was perfect protocol and ambition to get Ed to head to Iran.
Yes, perhaps my life, choices, actions and militarily perfect match led to me spending two years in Special Forces, after college. That was 16 years ago, but still very real in my rhealm of understanding. The experience also factors into my present day comprehension of reality. It also urges/motivates me to understand and possibly accept that there is more,… more that I don’t understand, yet more that I will forever want to try to understand.
All I can do, all I can manage, all that I can accept, all that I make a difference thereunto is that which I can understand. I’ll be honest, I’ve given alot of what I don’t understand up to something called Faith (which I define as that which is the subtance of things hoped for, and perhaps the evidence of things unseen.)
I’ve seen alot in this @$#@% up world. I don’t understand it. But I can control and manage myself and what perhaps I can do to make this world better… which I think God wants me to do. (Surely someone out there can relate to that?)
I think we all eventually have to truly believe in something greater than ourselves, or we’d perhaps never understand ourselves and this world.
Whats the old saying?…. “you have to stand for something or you will fall for anything? Hmm?
Sue, I admire that you stand for what you do. FYI. — J
Believe it or not, I think Infowars is right about the thought police.
While I don’t condone the I-mans comments, the question is, what about the 1st Amendment?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Now in this case, it is not the government that is prohibiting the free exercise of freedom of speech, but a certain section of the population who take it upon themselves to be the moral speech police of our government. And worse then a law, there is no recourse to defend ones self as Imas learned. He apologized, he went out of his way to meet with these so called “thought police” and still, they called for his firing…which they got.
What should be shocking to the American public is not that this happened, but now that the standard has been set, where will it stop? Don’t think that this is the end of things, no my friends, this is only the start of things to come…and you might as well start striking the first amendment from your lists of rights, because in the name of “a better America” this right is being taken away.
Believe it or not, I think Infowars is right about the thought police.
While I don’t condone the I-mans comments, the question is, what about the 1st Amendment?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Now in this case, it is not the government that is prohibiting the free exercise of freedom of speech, but a certain section of the population who take it upon themselves to be the moral speech police of our government. And worse then a law, there is no recourse to defend ones self as Imas learned. He apologized, he went out of his way to meet with these so called “thought police” and still, they called for his firing…which they got.
What should be shocking to the American public is not that this happened, but now that the standard has been set, where will it stop? Don’t think that this is the end of things, no my friends, this is only the start of things to come…and you might as well start striking the first amendment from your lists of rights, because in the name of “a better America” this right is being taken away.
Though personally I think this particular event is blown out of proportion, in principle I believe it is being handled properly; in the public discussion of what’s acceptable to our society. Shunning is the correct punishment for anti-social behavior, not government regulation.
What nobody seems to be discussing though is that it isn’t the words themselves that are unacceptable, it’s the intention. Calling someone a name in jest is way different than saying it in anger or hatred. My husband sometimes calls me a bitch when I’m beating him at cribbage and I don’t take it personally. But when he calls me a bitch during an argument, I do. It’s the context of the words that belie the intention.
I haven’t heard anyone talking about the context of Imus comment. I bet half the people talking about this issue don’t even know what he was talking about just prior to the comment, they only hear that one phrase repeated over and over again. Out of context, or if you already believe that Imus is a bigot, the words have a different meaning.
Though personally I think this particular event is blown out of proportion, in principle I believe it is being handled properly; in the public discussion of what’s acceptable to our society. Shunning is the correct punishment for anti-social behavior, not government regulation.
What nobody seems to be discussing though is that it isn’t the words themselves that are unacceptable, it’s the intention. Calling someone a name in jest is way different than saying it in anger or hatred. My husband sometimes calls me a bitch when I’m beating him at cribbage and I don’t take it personally. But when he calls me a bitch during an argument, I do. It’s the context of the words that belie the intention.
I haven’t heard anyone talking about the context of Imus comment. I bet half the people talking about this issue don’t even know what he was talking about just prior to the comment, they only hear that one phrase repeated over and over again. Out of context, or if you already believe that Imus is a bigot, the words have a different meaning.
Your example is well taken reckless, but let me point out the direction we are going. What if someone overheard your husband call you a bitch during your game of cribbage, and reported him to the police for verbal spouse abuse. When questioned if he called you a bitch, you would answer yes, but….and that would be the end of it. They would only focus on the word, not the context. Doesn’t anyone see the problem we are setting ourselves up for?
The players of the team, the ones the comments were directed to stated they accepted Imas’ apology, and stated that they thought firing him was over the line of punishment, yet, for those who have taken it upon themselves to be the social justice servers, it wasn’t enough and now he is being punished much more harshly then those who were the victims thought he should be.
I think we need to ask ourselves, is this the road we want to go down?
Your example is well taken reckless, but let me point out the direction we are going. What if someone overheard your husband call you a bitch during your game of cribbage, and reported him to the police for verbal spouse abuse. When questioned if he called you a bitch, you would answer yes, but….and that would be the end of it. They would only focus on the word, not the context. Doesn’t anyone see the problem we are setting ourselves up for?
The players of the team, the ones the comments were directed to stated they accepted Imas’ apology, and stated that they thought firing him was over the line of punishment, yet, for those who have taken it upon themselves to be the social justice servers, it wasn’t enough and now he is being punished much more harshly then those who were the victims thought he should be.
I think we need to ask ourselves, is this the road we want to go down?
Imus has been making outrageous comments on a variety of social topics since the 60′s. He’s been fired numerous times over the years, only to tap into that mainstream bored society who loves listening to his cutting edge, yet very entertainining comments for almost 40 years, and continue on.
What Imus has done with his earnings is heartstring material. Whats kinda sad is that nobody here or in mainstream American society talks about the thousands of lives his philonthranpic endeavors have touched, including hundreds of African American children. His Imus Ranch for Kids w/ Cancer in New Mexico is incredible. And there is more.
I’ve listened to his show for years, and most of his comments, within the context of the info/comical rhealm, are yes, a bit outrageous, but I’ve never, ever heard a comment from him, and thought, “Wow, this guy must be a prejudiced jerk!” Perhaps he is, perhaps he is not
His comment, just the comment, was innapropriate. I often think of the term “shock journalism”… and I often wonder how these media folks get away with half of what they say.
I’ve worked in an oil field. I’ve worked off-shore. I’ve worked on a farm.. on a ranch. I’ve heard !#$% that would make my mother cringe. I’ve corrected many people throughout my life by stopping and saying,
“Hey dude, lets not go there, thats not cool, lets not use that language!” And every time, they respected me, and the language turned better.
I asked one of my best friends, an African Amercian success story and a very close friend of mine, about this subject a few days ago (and I told him I’d post his thought here, and he was cool with that.) So here is his response:
“WOW..The Don Imus Fiasco. How to begin? I believe he is the straw that broke the camels back. Not so much a fall guy, because he has said many stupid things over the years regarding race, such as “You know that colored guy Obama,” is among the mildest. I think people just truly got tired of allowing this kind of talk over the airwaves w/o any consequences.
Now to Al and Jesse. As much as I love the fact that they stepped up to the plate this time, there have been way too many occasions when they just loved being in front of the camera and have manipulated the race issues for their own financial gain and thus have diminished their credibility, especially with white folks. This was a righteous cause, but because of their own baggage, may not be seen as such…All my opinion of course…. — Peace, Patrick.”
Don’t most of us wish we could just all throw history out the window and just live in peace and harmony with one another? Why must we live in the past so much? Why can’t we just do whats right? Why can’t we all just accept that this is the world we live in, the country we live in… and just get along?
Enough for now — J (bedtime now….)
Imus has been making outrageous comments on a variety of social topics since the 60′s. He’s been fired numerous times over the years, only to tap into that mainstream bored society who loves listening to his cutting edge, yet very entertainining comments for almost 40 years, and continue on.
What Imus has done with his earnings is heartstring material. Whats kinda sad is that nobody here or in mainstream American society talks about the thousands of lives his philonthranpic endeavors have touched, including hundreds of African American children. His Imus Ranch for Kids w/ Cancer in New Mexico is incredible. And there is more.
I’ve listened to his show for years, and most of his comments, within the context of the info/comical rhealm, are yes, a bit outrageous, but I’ve never, ever heard a comment from him, and thought, “Wow, this guy must be a prejudiced jerk!” Perhaps he is, perhaps he is not
His comment, just the comment, was innapropriate. I often think of the term “shock journalism”… and I often wonder how these media folks get away with half of what they say.
I’ve worked in an oil field. I’ve worked off-shore. I’ve worked on a farm.. on a ranch. I’ve heard !#$% that would make my mother cringe. I’ve corrected many people throughout my life by stopping and saying,
“Hey dude, lets not go there, thats not cool, lets not use that language!” And every time, they respected me, and the language turned better.
I asked one of my best friends, an African Amercian success story and a very close friend of mine, about this subject a few days ago (and I told him I’d post his thought here, and he was cool with that.) So here is his response:
“WOW..The Don Imus Fiasco. How to begin? I believe he is the straw that broke the camels back. Not so much a fall guy, because he has said many stupid things over the years regarding race, such as “You know that colored guy Obama,” is among the mildest. I think people just truly got tired of allowing this kind of talk over the airwaves w/o any consequences.
Now to Al and Jesse. As much as I love the fact that they stepped up to the plate this time, there have been way too many occasions when they just loved being in front of the camera and have manipulated the race issues for their own financial gain and thus have diminished their credibility, especially with white folks. This was a righteous cause, but because of their own baggage, may not be seen as such…All my opinion of course…. — Peace, Patrick.”
Don’t most of us wish we could just all throw history out the window and just live in peace and harmony with one another? Why must we live in the past so much? Why can’t we just do whats right? Why can’t we all just accept that this is the world we live in, the country we live in… and just get along?
Enough for now — J (bedtime now….)
infowars,
Mr. Agent Provocateur, I am not about to have your mental midgetry go unanswered. Your silliness and that entire loose change thing which I wasted time seeing are perfect examples of what is wrong on the fringes of political thought. Some believe lock stock and barrel whatever their masters in the White House say, others such as you ignore the most sensible and easiest explanation for the events leading to the quagmire KNown as the Iraqi theatre. The flying saucer type of explanation, is an embarassment to those who look for the causes of the deaths and record corporate profits.
If you really cared about that situation and had an education you wouldn’t purvey such nonsense, unless you were trying to make the left look like idiots by handing sensational rubbish to the LImbaughs of the world. How much do Bush people pay you. Swiftboats, Scaife; oh whatever.
infowars,
Mr. Agent Provocateur, I am not about to have your mental midgetry go unanswered. Your silliness and that entire loose change thing which I wasted time seeing are perfect examples of what is wrong on the fringes of political thought. Some believe lock stock and barrel whatever their masters in the White House say, others such as you ignore the most sensible and easiest explanation for the events leading to the quagmire KNown as the Iraqi theatre. The flying saucer type of explanation, is an embarassment to those who look for the causes of the deaths and record corporate profits.
If you really cared about that situation and had an education you wouldn’t purvey such nonsense, unless you were trying to make the left look like idiots by handing sensational rubbish to the LImbaughs of the world. How much do Bush people pay you. Swiftboats, Scaife; oh whatever.
and you trying to change the subject on this thread goes without saying……..
you still believe in those 19 cave-dwelling, box-cutter wielding, rag heads that kicked our WHOLE COUNTRY, dont you.
Since you do, and we have open borders your probably held up in some kind of bunker, cuzz they have row boats dude. and they have more box-cutters. LOL
and you trying to change the subject on this thread goes without saying……..
you still believe in those 19 cave-dwelling, box-cutter wielding, rag heads that kicked our WHOLE COUNTRY, dont you.
Since you do, and we have open borders your probably held up in some kind of bunker, cuzz they have row boats dude. and they have more box-cutters. LOL
Infowars: I get the whole thought police concept, and I appreciate that. Further, I’m the last person who would do a decent job pontificating.
You add… “how about go F yourself and the conman will remove me too.” Perhaps you have some anger issues to deal with — I can recommend a few folks/courses.
I won’t reply to the “F yourself” comment. I’ll let the editor of this site do that. Have a good day. — J
Infowars: I get the whole thought police concept, and I appreciate that. Further, I’m the last person who would do a decent job pontificating.
You add… “how about go F yourself and the conman will remove me too.” Perhaps you have some anger issues to deal with — I can recommend a few folks/courses.
I won’t reply to the “F yourself” comment. I’ll let the editor of this site do that. Have a good day. — J
Infowars,
Is dropping an F-yourself-bomb on Jon really necessary? I’ve read what you’ve written. You make a good point from time to time… when you don’t resort to the excremental.
I know Michael’s policy is to let people write what they want here, and I’ve seen comments deleted here for less. Regardless, keep that tenor if you like. Whether Michael deletes your offensive comments or not, you will eventually realize that people overlook what you write.
Cheers,
Infowars,
Is dropping an F-yourself-bomb on Jon really necessary? I’ve read what you’ve written. You make a good point from time to time… when you don’t resort to the excremental.
I know Michael’s policy is to let people write what they want here, and I’ve seen comments deleted here for less. Regardless, keep that tenor if you like. Whether Michael deletes your offensive comments or not, you will eventually realize that people overlook what you write.
Cheers,
my comment was more in being sarcastic in that if I tell someone here to go F themself I will be deleated.
Is this what we want, anyone that may “hurt someones feelings” to be removed?
Do we want a society were we act like robots and cannot say what we want or think?
I did not mean it as to tell Jon to go F himself per sa, I meant it more as an example, and maybe I failed there, my mistake, but maybe you understand what Im trying to say.
my comment was more in being sarcastic in that if I tell someone here to go F themself I will be deleated.
Is this what we want, anyone that may “hurt someones feelings” to be removed?
Do we want a society were we act like robots and cannot say what we want or think?
I did not mean it as to tell Jon to go F himself per sa, I meant it more as an example, and maybe I failed there, my mistake, but maybe you understand what Im trying to say.
Infowars,
Why all the indirection? Say what you want, say what you think. If you really want to believe that the “thought police” will turn you into some kind of cookie cutout, Stepford Wife-like drone, you’re giving away your mind at wholesale rates.
If you truly did not mean the comment you directed to Jon earlier, a public apology to him in this forum is a good way to go.
Cheers,
Infowars,
Why all the indirection? Say what you want, say what you think. If you really want to believe that the “thought police” will turn you into some kind of cookie cutout, Stepford Wife-like drone, you’re giving away your mind at wholesale rates.
If you truly did not mean the comment you directed to Jon earlier, a public apology to him in this forum is a good way to go.
Cheers,
missInfo wars,
Grandmasters occaisionally make mistakes at a level that a very good player can grasp when playing chess, and sometimes even an idiot can make the best move, in a certain position. I was hoping that you would have been able to contribute meaningful dialog. I can assure you it was only a hope.
There are writers here, with whom I will have very strong disagreements with even if I agree with them most of the time and vice versa. We agree to disagree without saying so, all the time and with out in general, calling each other idiots, or to f ourselves. If some of them want to judge my abilities by skin and you want to enjoy derogatory demographic epithets as a major expansion in your communicative repitoire. Go ahead, it doesn’t improve the speakers intelligence, including yours.
Your vicious ad hominem attack on Jon is intellectually disgraceful. Labeling you rude, a stooge, or an imbecile even if true, is useless. Surely, a rabid wolverine has higher philosophical concerns, about the flesh it may be shredding, than you have about your blather posing as “information.” You might as well have told us about the creature in the black lagoon’s conspiracy for world domination, instead of the the silly stuff about how the Iraqi involvement happenned. When you bring up the “thought police,” consider your own insipid “thought.” But that logic may not intersect.
I hope Jon and others, do not expect an apology from you. I certainly am not expecting one from you, and could care less. You deserve no indulgences. Mitch has gone way beyond what you deserve. For now I will keep this consideration of you; even an idiot will make sense once in a while.
missInfo wars,
Grandmasters occaisionally make mistakes at a level that a very good player can grasp when playing chess, and sometimes even an idiot can make the best move, in a certain position. I was hoping that you would have been able to contribute meaningful dialog. I can assure you it was only a hope.
There are writers here, with whom I will have very strong disagreements with even if I agree with them most of the time and vice versa. We agree to disagree without saying so, all the time and with out in general, calling each other idiots, or to f ourselves. If some of them want to judge my abilities by skin and you want to enjoy derogatory demographic epithets as a major expansion in your communicative repitoire. Go ahead, it doesn’t improve the speakers intelligence, including yours.
Your vicious ad hominem attack on Jon is intellectually disgraceful. Labeling you rude, a stooge, or an imbecile even if true, is useless. Surely, a rabid wolverine has higher philosophical concerns, about the flesh it may be shredding, than you have about your blather posing as “information.” You might as well have told us about the creature in the black lagoon’s conspiracy for world domination, instead of the the silly stuff about how the Iraqi involvement happenned. When you bring up the “thought police,” consider your own insipid “thought.” But that logic may not intersect.
I hope Jon and others, do not expect an apology from you. I certainly am not expecting one from you, and could care less. You deserve no indulgences. Mitch has gone way beyond what you deserve. For now I will keep this consideration of you; even an idiot will make sense once in a while.
ohh get off your high horse already.
ohh get off your high horse already.
I glady sit on a high horse often, literally, as well as figuratively. (and I often carry a loaded 30/30 in the saddle holster.) I’m on one now. One doesnt’ need to ride a tall horse to stand tall in life. I neither need nor want nor expect an apology from Infowars. I’m taller than that.
Just check your ego at the door. Be real…. and you dont’ have to drop F bombs on others to be real, or to make your point.
You ever sat tall and rode hard on a 17 hand horse? Perhaps it would do you good to experience other opportinuties in life that might perhaps give you a broader perspective, and I say that as a true moderate.
This site is about sharing, which most of us need and want to do, hoping someone would perhaps listen. This site is about the honest sharing of ideas and opinions and comments and posts that give regular Joe’s like us a voice to be heard.
Agree or disagree, we are all just people from different backgrounds, different rhealms of society, different political agendas, etc.
It is the meshing of all this that makes a forum like this worthwhile and necessary.
Herbert Hoover once said and was quoted, ” the intellect and education and knowledge one gains by going to school, depends largely upon what the student takes to school to take it home in.”
Hence, bring a positive, constructive, spongy type attitude, check egos at the door, rip any prejudices you may have apart, and come to learn, and enjoy the learning process. There is something very real, and very cool about that, in my opinion. — J
I glady sit on a high horse often, literally, as well as figuratively. (and I often carry a loaded 30/30 in the saddle holster.) I’m on one now. One doesnt’ need to ride a tall horse to stand tall in life. I neither need nor want nor expect an apology from Infowars. I’m taller than that.
Just check your ego at the door. Be real…. and you dont’ have to drop F bombs on others to be real, or to make your point.
You ever sat tall and rode hard on a 17 hand horse? Perhaps it would do you good to experience other opportinuties in life that might perhaps give you a broader perspective, and I say that as a true moderate.
This site is about sharing, which most of us need and want to do, hoping someone would perhaps listen. This site is about the honest sharing of ideas and opinions and comments and posts that give regular Joe’s like us a voice to be heard.
Agree or disagree, we are all just people from different backgrounds, different rhealms of society, different political agendas, etc.
It is the meshing of all this that makes a forum like this worthwhile and necessary.
Herbert Hoover once said and was quoted, ” the intellect and education and knowledge one gains by going to school, depends largely upon what the student takes to school to take it home in.”
Hence, bring a positive, constructive, spongy type attitude, check egos at the door, rip any prejudices you may have apart, and come to learn, and enjoy the learning process. There is something very real, and very cool about that, in my opinion. — J
If NBC can sack Imus from his MSNBC gig for saying “nappy-headed ho,” how do they rationalize giving voice to Cho Seung-Hui?
Cheers,
If NBC can sack Imus from his MSNBC gig for saying “nappy-headed ho,” how do they rationalize giving voice to Cho Seung-Hui?
Cheers,
Mitch,
There might be other kids out there with some of the same warning signs. 33 dead is a good reason to put this out there. Being safe isn’t always being tasteful. Parents may, with others, be able to do some type of intervention. Nevertheless, that is obviously some very sick stuff — a pure pregnant package of vile venom.
Mitch,
There might be other kids out there with some of the same warning signs. 33 dead is a good reason to put this out there. Being safe isn’t always being tasteful. Parents may, with others, be able to do some type of intervention. Nevertheless, that is obviously some very sick stuff — a pure pregnant package of vile venom.
Kind of ironic, all the buhaha about three little words, in the wake of the massacre. The girls who were supposedly “hurt” by Imus’ wordsare probably feeling pretty lucky now.
Kind of ironic, all the buhaha about three little words, in the wake of the massacre. The girls who were supposedly “hurt” by Imus’ wordsare probably feeling pretty lucky now.
Ed,
No doubt there are other children and young adults that exhibit similar warning signs. How does this does not justify airing the ravings of a psychopath?
The empirical observation of Cho’s actions and the grief of the families and students at Virginia Tech should be sufficient to hoist the flag of awareness high enough for all to see.
There may be a lesson in Cho’s “manifesto” that experts can use to help identify at-risk young people. All I see is Cho’s successful attempt to assert himself into the central focus of a nation, above those students and faculty whose lives he took in one of the most senseless ways imaginable. At this moment, when this nation should be collectively lifting up the families of those who struggle to make sense of this massacre, we instead see Cho.
And that’s what Cho wanted.
And NBC obliged.
Cheers,
Ed,
No doubt there are other children and young adults that exhibit similar warning signs. How does this does not justify airing the ravings of a psychopath?
The empirical observation of Cho’s actions and the grief of the families and students at Virginia Tech should be sufficient to hoist the flag of awareness high enough for all to see.
There may be a lesson in Cho’s “manifesto” that experts can use to help identify at-risk young people. All I see is Cho’s successful attempt to assert himself into the central focus of a nation, above those students and faculty whose lives he took in one of the most senseless ways imaginable. At this moment, when this nation should be collectively lifting up the families of those who struggle to make sense of this massacre, we instead see Cho.
And that’s what Cho wanted.
And NBC obliged.
Cheers,
we need another government agency to police the peoples thoughts. and the cliches on this website will ensure proper mouth-duct tapes are in place.
and your king conniff will insure other peoples ideas will be censored, and like he said over the radio last week, my thoughts were just spammed by his filter, even though some of my ideas got through.
yeahhhhh, right……………….
we need another government agency to police the peoples thoughts. and the cliches on this website will ensure proper mouth-duct tapes are in place.
and your king conniff will insure other peoples ideas will be censored, and like he said over the radio last week, my thoughts were just spammed by his filter, even though some of my ideas got through.
yeahhhhh, right……………….
Mitch,
I guess what I was thinking was Do you (meaning everyone) know anyone like Cho? Bitterly anti social, anti American and flakadelic, photographing womens’ panties with his cell phone camera and making efforts to purchase guns or other weapons useful in mass slaughters? Someone desiring willful violence and a wierdo at the same time?
Mitch,
I guess what I was thinking was Do you (meaning everyone) know anyone like Cho? Bitterly anti social, anti American and flakadelic, photographing womens’ panties with his cell phone camera and making efforts to purchase guns or other weapons useful in mass slaughters? Someone desiring willful violence and a wierdo at the same time?
Heres your “thought police”
Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks
Associated Press | April 18, 2007
BOULDER, Colo. (AP) – A University of Colorado student was arrested after making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.
During a class discussion of Monday’s massacre at Virginia Tech, the student “made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people,” university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.
Several witnesses told investigators the student said he was “angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people,” according to a police report. Witnesses “said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him,” Wiesley said.
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The student, identified by police as Max Karson of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution. He had a court appearance set for Wednesday afternoon.
His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son’s free speech rights had been violated.
“I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to,” he said.
University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about the student.
At Oregon’s Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was “a fashion accessory” made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.
Heres your “thought police”
Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks
Associated Press | April 18, 2007
BOULDER, Colo. (AP) – A University of Colorado student was arrested after making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.
During a class discussion of Monday’s massacre at Virginia Tech, the student “made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people,” university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.
Several witnesses told investigators the student said he was “angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people,” according to a police report. Witnesses “said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him,” Wiesley said.
(advertisement)
The student, identified by police as Max Karson of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution. He had a court appearance set for Wednesday afternoon.
His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son’s free speech rights had been violated.
“I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to,” he said.
University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about the student.
At Oregon’s Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was “a fashion accessory” made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.
Ed,
[…Do you (meaning everyone) know anyone like Cho?]
I have to say, I do not. And looking back, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such a person. While I find Cho’s social and behavioral oddities curious, what raised my left eyebrow was hearing he was an English major and had written and submitted for class compositions that troubled professors and students. (It is not clear to me whether these compositions triggered university officials to seek the help of the Montgomery County Court to detain Cho for psychiatric evaluation.)
I taught English composition during graduate school, so I’ve read a lot of student papers. A handful of the freshman students I taught I would describe as troubled, normally by loneliness in the wake of leaving the comforts of home and adjusting to dorm living, roommates, distance from high school sweethearts, that sort of thing. Understandable, and usually manageable without intervention, the problems I detected through reading student papers don’t even register on the scale of chilling mental instability Cho’s writing invokes.
I don’t know if you’ve read Cho’s one act play, “Richard McBeef.” It’s pretty easy to find on the internet (I found it at The Smoking Gun, and a few weeks ago, a CNN story linked to a site where a VT student published this and another of Cho’s works). If you have not read it, I do not recommend you do so. It’s a disturbing account of an irrational argument between a teenager and his step-father which culminates in the boy’s failed attempt to murder the step-father with a half-eaten granola bar followed by a “deadly blow” from the step-father.
Author Stephen King wrote a very brief article, “On Predicting Violence,” in which he gives this impression of Cho’s writing:
“Cho doesn’t strike me as in the least creative, however. Dude was crazy. Dude was, in the memorable phrasing of Nikki Giovanni, “just mean.” Essentially there’s no story here, except for a paranoid a–hole who went DEFCON-1. He may have been inspired by Columbine, but only because he was too dim to think up such a scenario on his own.”
~Stephen King, “On Predicting Violence,” (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036014,00.html)
King’s “article” wants for extensive analysis: Cho lacked creativity, and he (like his character John in “McBeef”) is “just mean,” and on these points I agree. King concludes, however, saying, “On the whole, I don’t think you can pick these guys out based on their work, unless you look for violence unenlivened [sic] by any real talent.” This, I submit, is exactly what “McBeef” is, violence un-enlivened by creativity.
I don’t know where I read it, but I remember reading an article a week or two ago that summed this up nicely: (Paraphrasing) “Ironically, college and university students seeking a liberal education learn by studying literature there is evil in this world, yet these same students don’t know what to do when they encounter evil in real life.” In this case, poet Nikki Giovanni, who had Cho removed from her class for what she called “menacing behavior” and “violent poetry,” did know what to do. Unfortunately, too few others followed her lead…
…Mind you, I’m not interested in who’s to blame. It’s just that I still think there is plenty to learn about preventing these kinds of killings without broadcasting Cho’s “manifesto” on network TV.
Cheers,
Ed,
[…Do you (meaning everyone) know anyone like Cho?]
I have to say, I do not. And looking back, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered such a person. While I find Cho’s social and behavioral oddities curious, what raised my left eyebrow was hearing he was an English major and had written and submitted for class compositions that troubled professors and students. (It is not clear to me whether these compositions triggered university officials to seek the help of the Montgomery County Court to detain Cho for psychiatric evaluation.)
I taught English composition during graduate school, so I’ve read a lot of student papers. A handful of the freshman students I taught I would describe as troubled, normally by loneliness in the wake of leaving the comforts of home and adjusting to dorm living, roommates, distance from high school sweethearts, that sort of thing. Understandable, and usually manageable without intervention, the problems I detected through reading student papers don’t even register on the scale of chilling mental instability Cho’s writing invokes.
I don’t know if you’ve read Cho’s one act play, “Richard McBeef.” It’s pretty easy to find on the internet (I found it at The Smoking Gun, and a few weeks ago, a CNN story linked to a site where a VT student published this and another of Cho’s works). If you have not read it, I do not recommend you do so. It’s a disturbing account of an irrational argument between a teenager and his step-father which culminates in the boy’s failed attempt to murder the step-father with a half-eaten granola bar followed by a “deadly blow” from the step-father.
Author Stephen King wrote a very brief article, “On Predicting Violence,” in which he gives this impression of Cho’s writing:
“Cho doesn’t strike me as in the least creative, however. Dude was crazy. Dude was, in the memorable phrasing of Nikki Giovanni, “just mean.” Essentially there’s no story here, except for a paranoid a–hole who went DEFCON-1. He may have been inspired by Columbine, but only because he was too dim to think up such a scenario on his own.”
~Stephen King, “On Predicting Violence,” (http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036014,00.html)
King’s “article” wants for extensive analysis: Cho lacked creativity, and he (like his character John in “McBeef”) is “just mean,” and on these points I agree. King concludes, however, saying, “On the whole, I don’t think you can pick these guys out based on their work, unless you look for violence unenlivened [sic] by any real talent.” This, I submit, is exactly what “McBeef” is, violence un-enlivened by creativity.
I don’t know where I read it, but I remember reading an article a week or two ago that summed this up nicely: (Paraphrasing) “Ironically, college and university students seeking a liberal education learn by studying literature there is evil in this world, yet these same students don’t know what to do when they encounter evil in real life.” In this case, poet Nikki Giovanni, who had Cho removed from her class for what she called “menacing behavior” and “violent poetry,” did know what to do. Unfortunately, too few others followed her lead…
…Mind you, I’m not interested in who’s to blame. It’s just that I still think there is plenty to learn about preventing these kinds of killings without broadcasting Cho’s “manifesto” on network TV.
Cheers,
Mitch ,
the efficacy is by far the most important thing here. That ‘dude’ was whacko. It might be true that a dangerous overeaction might take place if the common person was “sure,” they were on to some flake that goes nutcake. But what else is there?
Mitch ,
the efficacy is by far the most important thing here. That ‘dude’ was whacko. It might be true that a dangerous overeaction might take place if the common person was “sure,” they were on to some flake that goes nutcake. But what else is there?
[But what else is there?]
Don’t you find it at all curious that network and cable TV has all but abondoned Cho’s “manifesto”?
For hours after the NBC release, it was everywhere.
Now there is nothing but…
Quiet…
Silence.
Cheers,
[But what else is there?]
Don’t you find it at all curious that network and cable TV has all but abondoned Cho’s “manifesto”?
For hours after the NBC release, it was everywhere.
Now there is nothing but…
Quiet…
Silence.
Cheers,
[...what raised my left eyebrow was hearing he was an English major and had written and submitted for class compositions that troubled professors and students.]
Turns out that wasn’t the half of it. Cho actually wrote about a campus shooting spree…
Cheers,
[...what raised my left eyebrow was hearing he was an English major and had written and submitted for class compositions that troubled professors and students.]
Turns out that wasn’t the half of it. Cho actually wrote about a campus shooting spree…
Cheers,
It’s too bad our society is so difunctional! Didn’t any of those teachers think to sit down with Cho and discuss his feelings? If someone had befriended him, maybe just talking things out would have diffused his anger and feelings of disconnection.
Maybe every college campus should have a special team made up of compassionate students who could be recruited to make someone like Cho feel included, when the alarm bells ring in teacher’s heads, like they obviously did in this case.
Is that too unrealistic?
It’s too bad our society is so difunctional! Didn’t any of those teachers think to sit down with Cho and discuss his feelings? If someone had befriended him, maybe just talking things out would have diffused his anger and feelings of disconnection.
Maybe every college campus should have a special team made up of compassionate students who could be recruited to make someone like Cho feel included, when the alarm bells ring in teacher’s heads, like they obviously did in this case.
Is that too unrealistic?
Kill yourselves or you will never know how the dorky kid that [you] publicly humiliated and spat on will come behind you and slash your throats. . . . Kill yourselves or you will never know the hour the little kid will come with hundreds of ammunition on his back to shoot you down.
~Sueng Hui Cho, Letter to Virginia Tech English Dept.
Your suggestion for “a special team made up of compassionate students” strikes me as blindly optimistic.
Cheers,
Kill yourselves or you will never know how the dorky kid that [you] publicly humiliated and spat on will come behind you and slash your throats. . . . Kill yourselves or you will never know the hour the little kid will come with hundreds of ammunition on his back to shoot you down.
~Sueng Hui Cho, Letter to Virginia Tech English Dept.
Your suggestion for “a special team made up of compassionate students” strikes me as blindly optimistic.
Cheers,
“the dorky kid that [you] publicly humiliated and spat on”
This is my point. If the kid feels humiliated, have a group of student volunteers befriend him. If they see him getting picked on, they can intervene. I’m sure such groups could be organized of students who have the confidence, courage and compassion, in coleeges and even high schools.
I know this is a tired old line of mine but…what could it hurt? Why not give it a try?
“the dorky kid that [you] publicly humiliated and spat on”
This is my point. If the kid feels humiliated, have a group of student volunteers befriend him. If they see him getting picked on, they can intervene. I’m sure such groups could be organized of students who have the confidence, courage and compassion, in coleeges and even high schools.
I know this is a tired old line of mine but…what could it hurt? Why not give it a try?
G–I don’t know how much of that Washington Post article I linked to… The account offered by poet Nikki Giovanni, who taught a writing course attended by Cho, suggests it was Cho who was the aggressor, not the humiliated. Cho wrote of death and took pictures of students in class. On one occassion, 70 students avoided Giovanni’s writing class after listening to Cho read his work. Cho expressed the humiliation I cited above after the English Department urged him to change the tenor of his writing and seek counseling, not after, as you suggest, getting picked on by peers.
Cheers,
G–I don’t know how much of that Washington Post article I linked to… The account offered by poet Nikki Giovanni, who taught a writing course attended by Cho, suggests it was Cho who was the aggressor, not the humiliated. Cho wrote of death and took pictures of students in class. On one occassion, 70 students avoided Giovanni’s writing class after listening to Cho read his work. Cho expressed the humiliation I cited above after the English Department urged him to change the tenor of his writing and seek counseling, not after, as you suggest, getting picked on by peers.
Cheers,
Mitch,
Evidence from this incident, the Columbine shootings and other violence by students suggests that the perpetrators are indeed outcasts, ridiculed and humiliated by peers. Granted these kids have psychological problems that lead them to kill rather than cope. But teachers who simply suggest they need counseling, instead of offering an ear themselves are not helping. To suggest that a student seek counseling just confirms the kid’s fears that there is something wrong with them, probably not what they want to hear.
We as a society need to take responsibility for each other. We can’t ignore people like Cho and hope they just go away. This kind of tragedy is going to be repeated in other schools until some sort of program is developed to deal with it. That’s what I’m suggesting, just a little experimental program offering “normal” students a chance to perhaps prevent violence by a fellow student against their peers. It would of course be monitored and directed by a teacher or counselor.
Yeah, I have a tendency to look for solutions outside of the box, but I wouldn’t say I’m blindly optimistic. I’ve got my eyes open, I’m just looking in a different direction than most people.
Mitch,
Evidence from this incident, the Columbine shootings and other violence by students suggests that the perpetrators are indeed outcasts, ridiculed and humiliated by peers. Granted these kids have psychological problems that lead them to kill rather than cope. But teachers who simply suggest they need counseling, instead of offering an ear themselves are not helping. To suggest that a student seek counseling just confirms the kid’s fears that there is something wrong with them, probably not what they want to hear.
We as a society need to take responsibility for each other. We can’t ignore people like Cho and hope they just go away. This kind of tragedy is going to be repeated in other schools until some sort of program is developed to deal with it. That’s what I’m suggesting, just a little experimental program offering “normal” students a chance to perhaps prevent violence by a fellow student against their peers. It would of course be monitored and directed by a teacher or counselor.
Yeah, I have a tendency to look for solutions outside of the box, but I wouldn’t say I’m blindly optimistic. I’ve got my eyes open, I’m just looking in a different direction than most people.
G-
The Virginia Tech Review Panel released a 147-page report today. The report does not support your contention that, “perpetrators [of such acts] are indeed outcasts, ridiculed and humiliated by peers.” To the contrary, the report refutes your contention.
First, the panel addressed the question of bullying and concluded there is little evidence Cho was bullied, nor whether bullying was a primary or secondary cause of Cho’s actions. That said, despite scant evidence of bullying, the report does not rule it out. What little evidence there is comes from Cho’s sister, who reported that while as children she and her brother were “harassed,” such bullying was neither “threatening nor ongoing” [Virginia Tech Review Panel Report, Chapter 8, page 5].
Second, the report indicates that in June, 1999, Cho was diagnosed with “selective mutism” and “major depression: single episode.” Selective mutism renders sufferers of this rare psychological disorder unable to speak or function normally in social situations. Some describe it as an extreme form of shyness. According to the report:
The report suggests Cho’s psychological conditions caused him to avoid social interaction with his peers. While this does not eliminate bullying, it does indicate an individual who would avoid bullying as actively as any social or spoken interaction. Moreover, the descriptions of Cho’s on-campus behavior by his roommate and suite mates suggests a person of nearly complete inaccessibility.
Chapter 8 of this report is an interesting read. It indicates to me that not only was Cho not a victim of bullying, his behavior in the period leading up to the murder spree constitutes bullying.
The unfortunate effect of Cho’s psychological condition illustrates clearly why “special teams of compassionate students” would have made no difference. What would have? Probably nothing short of proper psychiatric intervention.
Cheers,
G-
The Virginia Tech Review Panel released a 147-page report today. The report does not support your contention that, “perpetrators [of such acts] are indeed outcasts, ridiculed and humiliated by peers.” To the contrary, the report refutes your contention.
First, the panel addressed the question of bullying and concluded there is little evidence Cho was bullied, nor whether bullying was a primary or secondary cause of Cho’s actions. That said, despite scant evidence of bullying, the report does not rule it out. What little evidence there is comes from Cho’s sister, who reported that while as children she and her brother were “harassed,” such bullying was neither “threatening nor ongoing” [Virginia Tech Review Panel Report, Chapter 8, page 5].
Second, the report indicates that in June, 1999, Cho was diagnosed with “selective mutism” and “major depression: single episode.” Selective mutism renders sufferers of this rare psychological disorder unable to speak or function normally in social situations. Some describe it as an extreme form of shyness. According to the report:
The report suggests Cho’s psychological conditions caused him to avoid social interaction with his peers. While this does not eliminate bullying, it does indicate an individual who would avoid bullying as actively as any social or spoken interaction. Moreover, the descriptions of Cho’s on-campus behavior by his roommate and suite mates suggests a person of nearly complete inaccessibility.
Chapter 8 of this report is an interesting read. It indicates to me that not only was Cho not a victim of bullying, his behavior in the period leading up to the murder spree constitutes bullying.
The unfortunate effect of Cho’s psychological condition illustrates clearly why “special teams of compassionate students” would have made no difference. What would have? Probably nothing short of proper psychiatric intervention.
Cheers,
Yeah, you’re probably right. I guess some people are lost causes and we should just resign ourselves to more campus bloodbaths. There’s nothing that can be done, so why try anything?
I’m not saying it would have worked with Cho, maybe he was beyond help, but there are cases when it could make a difference. At the very least, if a group of students were monitoring a potential time bomb, they could report on any suspicious goings on or alarming statements and then the authorities could step in.
Because everyone avoided and ignored Cho and tried to pass him off on someone else, no one knew the true danger he posed, until it was too late.
Now, as we sit on our hands and make excuses, another mass murder is brewing in another disturbed child’s mind.
Oh well, not our problem.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I guess some people are lost causes and we should just resign ourselves to more campus bloodbaths. There’s nothing that can be done, so why try anything?
I’m not saying it would have worked with Cho, maybe he was beyond help, but there are cases when it could make a difference. At the very least, if a group of students were monitoring a potential time bomb, they could report on any suspicious goings on or alarming statements and then the authorities could step in.
Because everyone avoided and ignored Cho and tried to pass him off on someone else, no one knew the true danger he posed, until it was too late.
Now, as we sit on our hands and make excuses, another mass murder is brewing in another disturbed child’s mind.
Oh well, not our problem.
Yes, G, you’re high-powered acumen accurately summarized my point: instead of forming a group of highly sensitive students dedicated to curing the psychologically disturbed, let us sit on our hands and wait for the next blood bath. Yea, that’s exactly what I meant.
Cheers,
Yes, G, you’re high-powered acumen accurately summarized my point: instead of forming a group of highly sensitive students dedicated to curing the psychologically disturbed, let us sit on our hands and wait for the next blood bath. Yea, that’s exactly what I meant.
Cheers,
As usual, we disagree, but I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on. I’ve made what I think is a valid contribution to finding a solution, and been defending it ever since.
If we’re going to disagree, at least give me your take. So far all you’ve given me are facts and observations. No opinions, no solutions.
I’m solutions-oriented.
How do you think we should prevent student shooting sprees? What should have been done differently in the Virginia Tech or Columbine incidents? What can we do now?
As usual, we disagree, but I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on. I’ve made what I think is a valid contribution to finding a solution, and been defending it ever since.
If we’re going to disagree, at least give me your take. So far all you’ve given me are facts and observations. No opinions, no solutions.
I’m solutions-oriented.
How do you think we should prevent student shooting sprees? What should have been done differently in the Virginia Tech or Columbine incidents? What can we do now?
[I’ve made what I think is a valid contribution.]
I think I have demonstrated why your contribution, while certainly altruistic and well-intended, would have been ineffective in the Virginia Tech case.
To be clear, equating Columbine with Virginia Tech is valid only in effect, not cause.
The solution is not simple, not because it can be, but because it will get the ACLU’s and like agencies’ knickers in a twist and result in a crap-storm of lawsuits.
Following a text from Cho to a suitemate that said, “I might as well kill myself,” Virginia Tech campus police took Cho into custody for evaluation. In Virginia, the standard for involuntary commitment is 1) an imminent danger to self or others, or a substantial inability to care for self, and 2) less restrictive alternatives to involuntary inpatient treatment have been investigated and are deemed unsuitable. [Report, p. 56] A screener determined Cho a danger to himself. However, the Judge presiding over Cho’s disposition hearing and the psychiatrist who examined Cho had access only to the conclusions of the screener, not to Cho’s medical history. As a consequence, the psychiatrist recommended counseling on an out-patient basis, and no medications were prescribed.
I agree with the Report’s recommendation that Virginia’s Health Records Privacy laws “be amended to ensure that all entities involved with treatment have full authority to share records with each other and all persons involved in the involuntary commitment process.” [Report, p. 61]
Cheers,
[I’ve made what I think is a valid contribution.]
I think I have demonstrated why your contribution, while certainly altruistic and well-intended, would have been ineffective in the Virginia Tech case.
To be clear, equating Columbine with Virginia Tech is valid only in effect, not cause.
The solution is not simple, not because it can be, but because it will get the ACLU’s and like agencies’ knickers in a twist and result in a crap-storm of lawsuits.
Following a text from Cho to a suitemate that said, “I might as well kill myself,” Virginia Tech campus police took Cho into custody for evaluation. In Virginia, the standard for involuntary commitment is 1) an imminent danger to self or others, or a substantial inability to care for self, and 2) less restrictive alternatives to involuntary inpatient treatment have been investigated and are deemed unsuitable. [Report, p. 56] A screener determined Cho a danger to himself. However, the Judge presiding over Cho’s disposition hearing and the psychiatrist who examined Cho had access only to the conclusions of the screener, not to Cho’s medical history. As a consequence, the psychiatrist recommended counseling on an out-patient basis, and no medications were prescribed.
I agree with the Report’s recommendation that Virginia’s Health Records Privacy laws “be amended to ensure that all entities involved with treatment have full authority to share records with each other and all persons involved in the involuntary commitment process.” [Report, p. 61]
Cheers,
70 kids leaving a class should not be misconstrued as a lack of concern or awareness by students, Giovanni’s expulsion of Cho, also completes a circle of concern, to include at least one faculty member. These were clear decisions by students and at least one faculty staff member, to act in their own self interest, when the administrative power structure failed to act, in a manner consistent with what others were feeling very aware of; Cho was already out of his gourd regardless of any bio-socio-psychopathologic reasons.
70 kids leaving a class should not be misconstrued as a lack of concern or awareness by students, Giovanni’s expulsion of Cho, also completes a circle of concern, to include at least one faculty member. These were clear decisions by students and at least one faculty staff member, to act in their own self interest, when the administrative power structure failed to act, in a manner consistent with what others were feeling very aware of; Cho was already out of his gourd regardless of any bio-socio-psychopathologic reasons.