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	<title>Comments on: Censorship rears its ugly head again!</title>
	<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/</link>
	<description>Think Global : Post Local</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Will Kesler</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38200</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 02:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38200</guid>
					<description>In comment #16 I implied that the Aspen Times had censored my letters. I wrote the editor and have been assured it was an oversight, which I accept as the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In comment #16 I implied that the Aspen Times had censored my letters. I wrote the editor and have been assured it was an oversight, which I accept as the truth.
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		<title>by: reckless G</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38188</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38188</guid>
					<description>You're right again Mitch. Now why didn't my spellcheck catch that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You're right again Mitch. Now why didn't my spellcheck catch that?
</p>
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		<title>by: Mitch.Mulhall</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38184</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38184</guid>
					<description>[Troy THREATENED to censure me.]

In Troy’s defense, he did not &lt;em&gt;censure&lt;/em&gt; you. A censure is a formal reprimand of an individual by an authoritative body like Congress. Changing a newspaper’s policy on letters to the editor hardly constitutes censure.

Cheers,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Troy THREATENED to censure me.]</p>
<p>In Troy’s defense, he did not <em>censure</em> you. A censure is a formal reprimand of an individual by an authoritative body like Congress. Changing a newspaper’s policy on letters to the editor hardly constitutes censure.</p>
<p>Cheers,
</p>
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		<title>by: Wharf Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38182</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38182</guid>
					<description>Watchdawg,

A &quot;personal attack&quot; requires a person and an attack for the label to be appropriate.  For instance, calling certain people &quot;losers&quot; would be a personal attack.  That's a far cry from identifying someone who is responsible for censorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watchdawg,</p>
<p>A "personal attack" requires a person and an attack for the label to be appropriate.  For instance, calling certain people "losers" would be a personal attack.  That's a far cry from identifying someone who is responsible for censorship.
</p>
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		<title>by: reckless G</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38181</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38181</guid>
					<description>Mitch,

Very lawyerly of you! As with the Grassroots decision, I don’t consider this a First Amendment issue. But it is a censorship issue nonetheless. I think I might actually be more comfortable with the government outlawing free speech than I am with voluntary compliance by well meaning editors, media heads and radio hosts. This is a scary new development reminiscent of prewar Nazi Germany. Citizens silencing debate and forcing dissenters underground does not bode well for the future of democracy and freedom in America.

Watchdawg,

So let me get this straight. You accuse me of personal attacks while personally attacking me and defending others who do the same…and you call ME crazy?

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Your perception that what I said was threatening has nothing to do with the statement; “You’re going to need it.” I was simply alluding to the fact that he’s probably going to have some explaining to do when people get wind of this issue.

Calling out John Masters is not a personal attack, it’s an expression of my opinion that he made the wrong decision. I suppose Michael Conniff will feel the need to go on the defensive now too. Why are all you men so sensitive! Oh sorry, was that a personal attack?

For the record I define “threatening” the way the dictionary does; expressing an intention to cause somebody deliberate harm or pain. Have I done that? No. The ONLY threat I made was to send a letter to the Aspen Times, which could cause Troy harm and is the main reason I haven’t done that. I wish no harm toward Troy. Still, I reserve the right to be blunt and harsh when stating my views, without it being labeled a personal attack. If you want some prime examples of personal attacks, just read my opponents letters. They’re full of them!

[Oh let’s not forget the Daily News hasn’t actually censored you]

That isn’t really the point is it? Troy THREATENED to censure me. That’s how this whole thing started. The Daily News didn’t have a meeting, discuss their policy and announce a change to the public. I got an email from the editor saying; “I’m (not Aspen Daily) considering revising our letters policy,” and “don’t be surprised if we stop publishing letters like this one,” indicating this was his personal choice, not a process of the staff coming out with a new public policy. 

The choice of words in that last sentence sounds a little threatening to me, what do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mitch,</p>
<p>Very lawyerly of you! As with the Grassroots decision, I don’t consider this a First Amendment issue. But it is a censorship issue nonetheless. I think I might actually be more comfortable with the government outlawing free speech than I am with voluntary compliance by well meaning editors, media heads and radio hosts. This is a scary new development reminiscent of prewar Nazi Germany. Citizens silencing debate and forcing dissenters underground does not bode well for the future of democracy and freedom in America.</p>
<p>Watchdawg,</p>
<p>So let me get this straight. You accuse me of personal attacks while personally attacking me and defending others who do the same…and you call ME crazy?</p>
<p>This is exactly what I’m talking about. Your perception that what I said was threatening has nothing to do with the statement; “You’re going to need it.” I was simply alluding to the fact that he’s probably going to have some explaining to do when people get wind of this issue.</p>
<p>Calling out John Masters is not a personal attack, it’s an expression of my opinion that he made the wrong decision. I suppose Michael Conniff will feel the need to go on the defensive now too. Why are all you men so sensitive! Oh sorry, was that a personal attack?</p>
<p>For the record I define “threatening” the way the dictionary does; expressing an intention to cause somebody deliberate harm or pain. Have I done that? No. The ONLY threat I made was to send a letter to the Aspen Times, which could cause Troy harm and is the main reason I haven’t done that. I wish no harm toward Troy. Still, I reserve the right to be blunt and harsh when stating my views, without it being labeled a personal attack. If you want some prime examples of personal attacks, just read my opponents letters. They’re full of them!</p>
<p>[Oh let’s not forget the Daily News hasn’t actually censored you]</p>
<p>That isn’t really the point is it? Troy THREATENED to censure me. That’s how this whole thing started. The Daily News didn’t have a meeting, discuss their policy and announce a change to the public. I got an email from the editor saying; “I’m (not Aspen Daily) considering revising our letters policy,” and “don’t be surprised if we stop publishing letters like this one,” indicating this was his personal choice, not a process of the staff coming out with a new public policy. </p>
<p>The choice of words in that last sentence sounds a little threatening to me, what do you think?
</p>
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		<title>by: Mitch.Mulhall</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38180</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38180</guid>
					<description>[Oh, let's not forget the Daily News hasn't actually censored you.]

&lt;blockquote&gt;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
~First Amendment&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The First Amendment restricts Congress from writing laws that curtail free speech. It says nothing that prohibits a newspaper editor from refusing to publish a citizen’s letters. In the ADN, the publication of Sue’s letters is a &lt;em&gt;privilege&lt;/em&gt;. If Sue starts her own newspaper, or writes in her own blog, the expression is a &lt;em&gt;right&lt;/em&gt;. 

If the ADN elected to publish Sue’s letters, that sets precedence. To now entertain a policy change that helps quiet her voice is lamentable, not merely because it attempts to solve a problem by ignoring it, but because it removes a forum where crepuscular reasoning can be revealed and adjourned.

Cheers,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Oh, let's not forget the Daily News hasn't actually censored you.]</p>
<blockquote><p>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.<br />
~First Amendment</p></blockquote>
<p>The First Amendment restricts Congress from writing laws that curtail free speech. It says nothing that prohibits a newspaper editor from refusing to publish a citizen’s letters. In the ADN, the publication of Sue’s letters is a <em>privilege</em>. If Sue starts her own newspaper, or writes in her own blog, the expression is a <em>right</em>. </p>
<p>If the ADN elected to publish Sue’s letters, that sets precedence. To now entertain a policy change that helps quiet her voice is lamentable, not merely because it attempts to solve a problem by ignoring it, but because it removes a forum where crepuscular reasoning can be revealed and adjourned.</p>
<p>Cheers,
</p>
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		<title>by: Valley Watchdawg</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38179</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38179</guid>
					<description>Oh, let's not forget the Daily News hasn't actually censored you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, let's not forget the Daily News hasn't actually censored you.
</p>
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		<title>by: Valley Watchdawg</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38178</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38178</guid>
					<description>Reckless,

This sounds threatening to me: &quot;I hope you’re feeling better and have got your voice back, you’re going to need it.&quot; That's nice. Pick on the sick guy. Then you write: &quot;Endless violence and hatred; exactly what I’ve dedicated my life to eliminating. Which is why I never engage in personal attacks.&quot; Never? Really? Then why do you write to Troy: &quot;I'm sorry for being so blunt and perhaps harsh on you personally.&quot; And  didn't you just personalize your argument by calling out John Masters, too? ... Um, you're kind of crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reckless,</p>
<p>This sounds threatening to me: "I hope you’re feeling better and have got your voice back, you’re going to need it." That's nice. Pick on the sick guy. Then you write: "Endless violence and hatred; exactly what I’ve dedicated my life to eliminating. Which is why I never engage in personal attacks." Never? Really? Then why do you write to Troy: "I'm sorry for being so blunt and perhaps harsh on you personally." And  didn't you just personalize your argument by calling out John Masters, too? ... Um, you're kind of crazy.
</p>
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		<title>by: Wharf Rat</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38176</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38176</guid>
					<description>I accidentally put 87 octane vitriol in my tank during the Thanksgiving road trip, which certainly lessened the fuel mileage.  I suggest you upgrade to 91 octane--or trade the Tundra in for a Prius.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I accidentally put 87 octane vitriol in my tank during the Thanksgiving road trip, which certainly lessened the fuel mileage.  I suggest you upgrade to 91 octane--or trade the Tundra in for a Prius.
</p>
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		<title>by: reckless G</title>
		<link>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38171</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.aspenpost.net/2007/11/27/censorship-rears-its-ugly-head-again/#comment-38171</guid>
					<description>Wharf,

Yeah that whole violence-is-justified-if-you’re-the-victim thing is confusing. Supposedly I am a hateful, bigoted, anti-Semitic, terrorist lover who spouts vitriol, therefore it’s ok to attack me. But if I’m attacked, then I become the victim, and it’s then ok for me to attack them. Right? So where does that lead? Endless violence and hatred; exactly what I’ve dedicated my life to eliminating. Which is why I never engage in personal attacks, even though some of my opponents will insist otherwise.

Speaking of spouting vitriol, Conman accused me of that on his show today. “Vitriol: extreme bitterness and hatred toward somebody or something, or an expression of this feeling in speech or writing.” I just don’t see how that applies to my criticism of Israel’s occupation of Palestine. Who or what is the object of my bitter hatred? As far as I recall I’ve never said a single vitriolic thing about anybody or any religion or any race. I think the labeling of my letters “vitriolic” has more to say about the prejudices of the labeler than the content of my letters.

Will,

Thanks for the advice. I’ve been told several times now that I should not let the Aspen Daily and people like Elaine Sandler have their way and push me out. However, it galls me to have to submit my letters for the “approval” of the editor. I realize that this has always been the reality, but having it lorded over me by Troy and now Conniff just rubs me the wrong way. I don’t want to play any part in enabling Troy’s censorship privileges; therefore I choose not to subject myself to his whims. As I said, there are still three other Valley papers that will print me.

Will, I suspect that we are losing this fight against government intrusion and violations of our rights. The US is rapidly becoming a closed totalitarian state. The illegal taxes that you fight and the illegal violations of my civil rights that I battle against are issues that most Americans have resigned themselves to and are too lazy to do anything about.

In the not too distant future America’s “liberty and justice for all” will be just a fond memory. The coming police state is being ushered in not just by our government, but by those like Troy Hooper and John Masters who allow the censorship of disagreeable and divisive issues, and by radio hosts who condone and justify those actions.

Farewell, sweet Liberty. I hardly knew ye.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wharf,</p>
<p>Yeah that whole violence-is-justified-if-you’re-the-victim thing is confusing. Supposedly I am a hateful, bigoted, anti-Semitic, terrorist lover who spouts vitriol, therefore it’s ok to attack me. But if I’m attacked, then I become the victim, and it’s then ok for me to attack them. Right? So where does that lead? Endless violence and hatred; exactly what I’ve dedicated my life to eliminating. Which is why I never engage in personal attacks, even though some of my opponents will insist otherwise.</p>
<p>Speaking of spouting vitriol, Conman accused me of that on his show today. “Vitriol: extreme bitterness and hatred toward somebody or something, or an expression of this feeling in speech or writing.” I just don’t see how that applies to my criticism of Israel’s occupation of Palestine. Who or what is the object of my bitter hatred? As far as I recall I’ve never said a single vitriolic thing about anybody or any religion or any race. I think the labeling of my letters “vitriolic” has more to say about the prejudices of the labeler than the content of my letters.</p>
<p>Will,</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. I’ve been told several times now that I should not let the Aspen Daily and people like Elaine Sandler have their way and push me out. However, it galls me to have to submit my letters for the “approval” of the editor. I realize that this has always been the reality, but having it lorded over me by Troy and now Conniff just rubs me the wrong way. I don’t want to play any part in enabling Troy’s censorship privileges; therefore I choose not to subject myself to his whims. As I said, there are still three other Valley papers that will print me.</p>
<p>Will, I suspect that we are losing this fight against government intrusion and violations of our rights. The US is rapidly becoming a closed totalitarian state. The illegal taxes that you fight and the illegal violations of my civil rights that I battle against are issues that most Americans have resigned themselves to and are too lazy to do anything about.</p>
<p>In the not too distant future America’s “liberty and justice for all” will be just a fond memory. The coming police state is being ushered in not just by our government, but by those like Troy Hooper and John Masters who allow the censorship of disagreeable and divisive issues, and by radio hosts who condone and justify those actions.</p>
<p>Farewell, sweet Liberty. I hardly knew ye.
</p>
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