ABSURD TO THE INSANE: MUSLIM IMMIGRATION INTO THE USA

November 24th, 2008 at 04:47pm Frosty Wooldridge 493

By Frosty Wooldridge

"America: the world's most powerful nation, bankrupt and armed to the teeth; flooded with diametrically opposing cultures--turning it into a balkanized third world country. Frightening! " Rolando

Our U.S. Congress signs America’s death warrant by the tens of thousands every month. While one in every six American children lives below the poverty line, Congress imports 200,000 immigrants every month that equal 2.4 million legal and illegal immigrants annually that need housing, medical care and education. While 28 million Americans subsist on food stamps, we host 20 million illegal aliens that displace jobs from those Americans without jobs. With 14 million Americans unemployed, our U.S. Congress outsources, insources and offshores jobs with incredible alacrity.

Now, as if we do not suffer enough problems, the Bush administration flies 1,000 Iraqi refugees into our country every 30 days. Thus far in 2008, 11,000 more Iraqi immigrants live off American tax dollars, with another 17,000 expected in 2009. But these aren’t just ‘usual’ immigrants; these people represent Sunni and Shiite Muslims that have battled each other for hundreds of years. These folks don’t just ‘hate’ each other; they despise and kill one another!

Why not inject ourselves with the Bubonic Plague, import Israel and Palestine immigrants or more Saudi immigrants who flew airliners into the World Trade Centers? Can anyone imagine ‘how’ angry these immigrants must be? Bush bombed them back into the stone age? He killed thousands of their women and children! Can you imagine how many live for revenge? How many of the 12,000 that make our shores this year and the 17,000 arriving next year will be angry, livid and outraged?

Immigrant multitudes pour into California without end. A whopping 1,650 people, mostly immigrants, per day, arrive into that already overpopulated state. One reader wrote, “This proves the people of California have lost their minds. There are 1.5 million Californians out of work and now they are doing this just when we are in a financial crisis. I think they are trying to kill America. How many more people can we absorb? Our government has lost its mind if they allow this. They should be marching in the street in Los Angeles to NOT bring in more people. More people for the taxpayer to pay for does NOT make any sense.”

“Your most recent article TEN REASONS WHY MEXICANS CAPTURED AMERICA, Nov. 13th, 2008 cannot be more plain in telling a chilling reality most Americans seem so passively be accepting of and apparently indifferent to our country’s invasion by Mexico,” said one reader. “Manuel Alderete, of the Mexican Movement is proudly expressing the fact of the matter to America’s future result of a brainwashed, ignorant or lethargic bundled state in a majority of our fellow citizens.

“If the Gallup Poll July, 2008 linked in your article, truly and accurately reflects Americans opinion on immigration, finds that only 39% of Americans favor a reduction on immigration, there is no hope left for America and I rest my case.

“If our fellow-citizens would take the 10 minutes time or less to read your bi-weekly columns and nothing else, by now, they would be well informed about America’s perils and incoming bleak future. And maybe, they would also feel as I do, mad as hell, and join the efforts of others to stop it.

“The result of the poll tells me that our countrymen still do not “Get it”, that our government, our two major political parties and their corrupted whores posing as the representatives of the “people”, along with the fifth column MSM and the ethnocentric special interests groups, are each pursuing interests that will change America into a borderless territory as a non- Nation as part of a global feudal-like community in the Northern-Southern hemisphere.

“Our fellow citizens with the aid of the fifth column MSM have systematically being conditioned or coerced into accepting political correctness tactic effective in the use of words to discourage attempts and to quell any meaningful opposition.

“As an example, being opposed to illegal immigration- -racist! A term skillfully employed which most Americans are quick to deny it and to run away from. La Raza’s and their ilk intimidating tactics have effectively quieted Mr. Lou Dobbs, an outspoken champion of the legal immigration issue and many others in TV land. Radio talk opponents are next and the Internet perhaps not far off.

“I reside in the South West Texas gulf area in the Rio Grande Valley, the entire region along the border and beyond it is Mexican dominated; grocery products, music, radio, TV programming, all government services and offices, politicians, you name it. The displaying of the Mexican flag and signs in the Spanish language and among themselves speaking in Spanish is not uncommon. A large portion of these people, perhaps Mexicans-Americans are capable of speaking English, but if you are not Anglo looking in appearance, you will be most surely, spoken in Spanish. I often hear comments- Anglos should learn to speak Spanish.

“Their displaying of the Mexican flag and speaking in Spanish, it is nothing more than an “in your face” demonstration of their arrogant and contemptuous attitude.

“Mexicans are fiercely pro-Mexican and very resentful of European-Americans. I will venture to guess that there would be nothing more satisfying to Mexicans than to see America on “its knees”. Our fellow citizens not becoming active in the defense of our country, and those living in their pristine communities enclaves in particular, are in for a rude awakening!”

Another reader, Brian said, “You ask the question, "Where will Americans flee?" I think the question to ask is where will Mexicans flee? Mexico, according to economist Thomas Sowell, is actually richer in resources than the United States. But Mexican culture has made it a violent, corrupt, impoverished, hellhole. Who can blame Mexicans for fleeing to a better place which has been built by Americans who value education, justice, private property, and the rule of law--all those qualities of our nation which made it free and prosperous?

“Unfortunately, when Mexicans reach this relative paradise, instead of embracing our Constitution and the values which have made this country so much better than Mexico--or any other place I know of--they proceed to make it as much like Mexico as they can. They encourage more Mexicans to come here, driving down their own wages, bankrupting hospitals, and creating crime-ridden slums. Indeed I have read about Mexicans already fleeing Mexicanized areas of the United States for those better areas still largely populated by, and run by, Americans.

“Mexicans apparently believe that wealth is somehow intrinsic to this place--they do not realize that it is the principles and values of Americans which made it wealthy. Mexicans apparently believe that they can just take this wealth away from Americans--and for a time, they can, but the wealth will run out. Already Mexicans have bankrupted California--a study found that if it were not for all those immigrants consuming more in state services than they pay in, California would actually have a budget surplus instead of a huge deficit.

“Now Mexicans have helped elect Obama. Bad as Jorge Bush and his predecessors have been, Obama will only accelerate the decline with his socialist programs. Of course it is in Obama's interest to bring in and give citizenship to as many more third world immigrants as possible to assure his next election victory. The more minority interest groups clamoring for handouts, the more secure future socialist administrations will be. America will become a hellhole to rival Mexico itself.

“Mexicans should be worried about how to preserve America as Americans made it. When the entire country has become Mexicanized, where then will they flee?”

To take action: www.numbersusa.com ; www.thesocialcontract.com ; www.fairus.org ; www.vdare.com ;www.patriotunion.org ; www.alipac.us ; www.firecoalition.com ; www.cairco.org ; www.limitstogrowth.com ;

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA: D.C.: (202)224-2854
CHICAGO, IL: (312)886-3506
SPRINGFIELD, IL: (217)492-5089
MARION, IL.: (618)997-2402
MOLINE, IL.: (309)736-1217

Become a member of "Frosty's Press Agent Corps" whereby you volunteer a few hours to send out emails to top TV and radio hosts to offer top speakers on America's overpopulation crisis driven by unending immigration. Email frostyw@juno.com and receive two informational letters showing you exactly what to do.

Compelling books to read:

“The Long Emergency” By James Howard Kunstler

“Peak Everything: A Century of Declines” by Richard Heinberg

“Too Many People” by Lindsey Grant

Roy Beck's "IMMIGRATION BY THE NUMBERS" is the single best educational appreciation of America's future if we allow ourselves to add another 100 million people. Just click on this site for the most sobering experience of your children's future.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=roy+beck&hl=en

Roy Beck gives a graphic presentation of our fate if we continue to allow legal and illegal immigration to swamp this country. If you have children, you will be particular unnerved at their fate. I know Roy Beck personally and his integrity and knowledge stand at the top. Pass this web site 14 minute video far and wide across America to educate everyone you know. We either stop this human tsunami or the future of this country will be much like Rome's. We must, as a nation and a civilization, move to secure our country from this massive, unrelenting population overload from a line that never ends. This will be the most compelling 14 minute video of your life.

Once you see it, go to my web site for action items www.frostywooldridge.com and join www.numbersusa.com to become a weekly faxer of pre written letters and join the phone calling teams.

Bob Woodruff of ABC asked input from all citizens concerning the future of our planet. Go to www.earth2100.tv for a sobering reality check as to what we face and to what I have been writing about for the past 20 years. Our 'window' to change to a balanced population and non-polluting energy diminishes every day we listen to irresponsible media and thus ignore the blatant symptoms manifesting all over America and the planet.

From: Frosty Wooldridge

This three minute interview with Adam Schrager on "Your Show" May 4, 2008, NBC Channel 9 News, addresses the ramifications of adding 120 million people to USA in 35 years and six million people to Colorado as to water shortages, air pollution, loss of farmland, energy costs and degradation of quality of life. In the interview, Frosty Wooldridge explains the ramifications of adding 120 million people to the USA in 35 years. He advances new concepts such as a "Colorado Carrying Capacity Policy"; "Colorado Environmental Impact Policy"; "Colorado Water Usage Policy"; "Colorado Sustainable Population Policy". Nationally, the USA needs a "National Sustainable Population Policy" to determine the carrying capacity of this nation for the short and long term. Wooldridge is available for interviews on radio and TV having interviewed on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and FOX.

Click the link to view the 3 minute interview with NBC's Adam Schrager:

Go to: www.frostywooldridge.com and click on "Audio/Video" tab

Frosty Wooldridge has bicycled across six continents – from the Arctic to the South Pole – as well as six times across the USA, coast to coast and border to border. In 2005, he bicycled from the Arctic Circle, Norway to Athens, Greece. He presents "The Coming Population Crisis in America: and what you can do about it" to civic clubs, church groups, high schools and colleges. He works to bring about sensible world population balance at www.frostywooldridge.com

Entry Filed under: Aspen

25 Comments Add your own

1. Mitch Mulhall | November 24th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

[These folks don’t just ‘hate’ each other; they despise and kill one another!]
2. infowars.com | November 26th, 2008 at 9:05 am

YouTube - New World Order for Dummies 10 min vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRLPG_HplrA
3. reckless G | November 26th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

[Now, as if we do not suffer enough problems, the Bush administration flies 1,000 Iraqi refugees into our country every 30 days. But these aren’t just ‘usual’ immigrants; these people represent Sunni and Shiite Muslims that have battled each other for hundreds of years. These folks don’t just ‘hate’ each other; they despise and kill one another!...Can anyone imagine ‘how’ angry these immigrants must be? Bush bombed them back into the stone age? He killed thousands of their women and children! Can you imagine how many live for revenge? How many of the 12,000 that make our shores this year and the 17,000 arriving next year will be angry, livid and outraged?]

Rarely have I read such xenophobic hysteria on Aspen Post.

Not everyone in Iraq is a terrorist; many are moderate and modern everyday citizens who no longer have the option of staying in Iraq. Some want a secure place to raise their children. Some have provided services to the U.S. military and are marked for assassination. Many are professionals who no longer have careers in Iraq. They will be our doctors, teachers, merchants, etc.

I visited Iraq before the war and while there befriended a woman (a teacher and artist) with whom I’ve stayed in touch through email. A few years into the conflict, after her home was bombed, her children’s schools closed and several of her relatives were killed, she and her children fled Iraq and have been living as refugees in Jordan. After a long struggle she finally received her visa to the U.S. and will be arriving shortly.

To assume that the U.S. government is going to let in terrorists or even just vengeful Iraqis is just plain ridiculous. There is a long and extensive vetting program which is why it has taken nearly three years for my friend to get her visa.

As long as the U.S. makes war on other countries we will continue to receive immigrants from those countries. My daughter-in-law was a refugee from Viet Nam as are millions of other naturalized American citizens. We bombed the hell out of their country too and killed many civilians, but as far as I know there has not been one terrorist attack on America perpetrated by an angry Vietnamese immigrant.
4. Frosty Wooldridge | November 26th, 2008 at 6:56 pm

I abhor stupid people! I pity naive people. One look at what Muslims have done to France, UK, Holland and Belgium should give even the weakest minded among us a clue. But no, denial proves easiest. Just look at "Little Baghdad" in Detroit. Those folks prove racist and separatists and average Americans are NOT tolerated in their enclaves. Muslims do not assimilate into host countries, but in fact destroy host countries' language and culture. Make no mistake about it, I present the facts and you can plug them in anywhere Muslims congregate. Ask any Frenchman! Dutch! Brit! German! Norwegian! Their countries are being driven back into the 6th century by Muslim immigrants. Their one and single prime directive is to convert or kill all non-believers. That's a fact! Read it in the Koran.

A recent Drudge Report showed that America faces terrific breakdown and breakup in the coming decade or so.

Whether you call it names or you don't understand what you're talking about which is apparent--we face an added 100 million people driven 80 percent by immigration that will, within 30 years, take this country apart environmentally, linguistically, culturally and worse. FW

RUSSIAN ANALYST PREDICTS DECLINE AND BREAKUP OF USA [ into 6 Regional sub-countries ]
Tue Nov 25 2008 09:04:22 ET Pick your sub-country, Folks !

A leading Russian political analyst has said the economic turmoil in the United States has confirmed his long-held view that the country is heading for collapse, and will divide into separate parts.

Professor Igor Panarin said in an interview with the respected daily IZVESTIA published on Monday: "The dollar is not secured by anything. The country's foreign debt has grown like an avalanche, even though in the early 1980s there was no debt. By 1998, when I first made my prediction, it had exceeded $2 trillion. Now it is more than 11 trillion. This is a pyramid that can only collapse."

The paper said Panarin's dire predictions for the U.S. economy, initially made at an international conference in Australia 10 years ago at a time when the economy appeared strong, have been given more credence by this year's events.

When asked when the U.S. economy would collapse, Panarin said: "It is already collapsing. Due to the financial crisis, three of the largest and oldest five banks on Wall Street have already ceased to exist, and two are barely surviving. Their losses are the biggest in history. Now what we will see is a change in the regulatory system on a global financial scale: America will no longer be the world's financial regulator."

When asked who would replace the U.S. in regulating world markets, he said: "Two countries could assume this role: China, with its vast reserves, and Russia, which could play the role of a regulator in Eurasia."

Asked why he expected the U.S. to break up into separate parts, he said: "A whole range of reasons. Firstly, the financial problems in the U.S. will get worse. Millions of citizens there have lost their savings. Prices and unemployment are on the rise. General Motors and Ford are on the verge of collapse, and this means that whole cities will be left without work. Governors are already insistently demanding money from the federal center. Dissatisfaction is growing, and at the moment it is only being held back by the elections and the hope that Obama can work miracles. But by spring, it will be clear that there are no miracles."

He also cited the "vulnerable political setup", "lack of unified national laws", and "divisions among the elite, which have become clear in these crisis conditions."

He predicted that the U.S. will break up into six parts - the Pacific coast, with its growing Chinese population; the South, with its Hispanics; Texas, where independence movements are on the rise; the Atlantic coast, with its distinct and separate mentality; five of the poorer central states with their large Native American populations; and the northern states, where the influence from Canada is strong.

He even suggested that "we [Russia] could claim Alaska - it was only granted on lease, after all." Panarin, 60, is a professor at the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and has authored several books on information warfare.
5. infowars.com | November 26th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

you know Frosty, I was gonna post that same article from Panarin but I thought some of the people that run this site would delete it like some of the other posts of mine.

Anyone can go to www.infowars.com and see that the elite power brokers that run things are determined to destroy this country, one of the many ways is through letting the illegals dilute this countrys core values thus destroying The Bill of Rights and anything else that resembles a strong America.

The Conman even said years ago that both parties are criminals by not doing anything about the insane amounts (tens of millions) of illegals that pour into this country and treat it like a cesspool.

By destroying the foundation of this country through open borders, this country will be fused together with Canada and Mexico just like Bush and company have done in secret.

dont believe me? just google it yourselves
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA
6. reckless G | November 26th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

As far as the destruction of our country, we have far more to fear from American born Christian Fundamentalists than immigrant Muslims. Honestly, I don’t know how you two can justify your hatred for immigrants of varying ethnicities and religions on the basis they are going to ruin America. Where is the evidence of this?
Within a generation or two, those Iraqi Muslims are going to be completely assimilated into mainstream American life. They’ll look and act and SPEAK so much like us that we won’t even be able to tell where their parents or grandparents were born. This is the pattern that has been established by every other immigrant culture in America: Chinese, Irish, Italian, Vietnamese. My granddaughter speaks perfect English even though her mother arrived here by boat a mere twenty-five years ago. She dresses and acts like every other American pre-teen.
As for the problems allegedly caused by Muslim immigrants in other countries, well, they’re not us. America isn't called “the melting pot” for nothing ya know.
7. infowars.com | November 26th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

I said illegals not immigrants....
Sue you know better than that....
People that love illegals always do that, they twist the terms illegals and immigrants. Shame on you Sue.

why the hate?

Heres one reason
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lb3oFzCj_0

Heres some more

2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI

CRIME STATISTICS 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually

53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or "transport coyotes".

47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

BIRTH STATISTICS 380,000 plus "anchor babies" were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens.

97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.

66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers
8. infowars.com | November 26th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

I may have clouded the original thoughts to this thread bringing up illegals who are ruining this country and this government that is helping them. my bad there.

But I agree with Frosty on this issue of immigrants brought here by the tens of thousands; however, we had no business killing them by the hundreds of thousands for the Neo-Con lies either.
9. reckless G | November 26th, 2008 at 11:00 pm

People who love illegals always do that? Yeah I guess I love illegal immigrants, just as I love legal immigrants and natural born citizens. When it comes to loving my fellow brothers and sisters, I don't differentiate between people born on this side of an arbitrary man-made line or the other. I’ve seen the pictures of earth taken from space and despite what you might see on Google Earth, those lines don’t really exist you know. The concept of “the other” is merely an illusion.

Yes, immigrants look and talk different than most Americans, they might dress funny and eat weird and worship differently than we do, but after all immigrants are just people, deep down no different than you and I. And if they want to make their home on this side of those imaginary lines, I say bravo! The more the merrier. I just don't see this looming threat of the destruction of America from immigrants, legal or otherwise the way you two do.

Infowars, your statistics tell a story all right. They prove the fact that most law enforcement officials, judges and juries are as prejudiced as you are. It’s a fact that white American males don’t get picked up for crimes, or prosecuted, or sent to jail as often as brown non-Americans. The compilation of those stats are just another bogus attempt by white supremacists (the original compilers, not you infowars) to prove that dark-skinned people are inferior and dangerous. Better guard your womenfolk!

Oh and Frosty, I’ve got news for you; there are already 8 to 10 million Muslims in America, do you really think another 10 or 12 thousand a year is going to be the tipping point toward your imaginary existential threat?
10. infowars.com | November 26th, 2008 at 11:17 pm

Well, Ive met both Sue and Frosty and respect them for the courage they have.

Its kind of ironic that even though you have opposing views, you are both attacked and demonized by the main stream press/media/talk show hosts etc. which allows the sheeple the misguided ammo to attack you as well.

Regardless of who is right, this country is in big trouble for dozens of different reasons and our children and grandchildren will pay the price, probably of the loss of Freedom and the decline of life.
11. Mitch Mulhall | November 27th, 2008 at 12:04 am

Hmmm. Seems info lifted the skirt of this thread and saw Kierkegaard. The task must be made difficult, for only the difficult inspires the noble-hearted. Assignment of cause is untenable and fraught with troubling leaps in logic.

Cheers,
12. Frosty Wooldridge | November 27th, 2008 at 8:27 am

Again, I repeat, immigration both legal and illegal prove THE single greatest factor destroying the United States not only from linguistic and cultural destruction, but from the addition of 100 million people added to this country in the next 30 years. Of that 100 million, 70 million will be from foreign third world countries. They WILL destroy and they ARE destroying the foundation of America on a cultural level and from an environmental level. We don't have the water, the energy, the food or the ability to mitigate climate change by adding 100 million people. We're populating ourselves into Hobson's Choice.

Additionally, using our own Constitution by their sheer numbers, Muslims will instigate Sharia Law which, by itself, is the most destructive, barbaric form of law in the world. Sharia Law promotes female genital mutilation, stoning of women for committing adultery, honor killings, arranged marriages,stopping education for women, domination of women by men, converting or killing anyone who isn't a Muslim, beheadings and cutting off of hands of minor criminals. Sharia Law is nothing to fool with. Thus, when you argue for more Muslims, you undermine your own country, your own culture, your own language. Right now in London, there are two countries: British and Muslim. They don't associate and they loathe each other. France the same. Holland the same. Any fool can see the same thing happening wherever Muslims gain greater numbers.

I see already extreme separation and division in America with this onslaught of legal and illegal immigrants. We've already got 85 languages in Denver Public Schools and no end to the chaos they create for our children.

Any damn fool who keeps thinking immigration is still a melting pot bouquet shows a lack of understanding, comprehension of history and simple human tendencies of ethnocentric bias of all races.

But beyond, we're headed in a direction that will crack this country and its people into pieces--from the sheer addition of 100 million people. You may read about it in James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency" and Richard Heinberg's "Peak Everything" or you may wait until February when my book publishes: "America on the Brink: The Next Added 100 Million Americans".

Again, this nation and its general population proves Einstein's adage: "There are two things infinite--the universe and human stupidity. I'm not sure about the first, but I am positive about the second."

Hang on because it's going to be a hell of a ride in the next 20 years--and none of it's going to be pretty. FW
13. infowars.com | November 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am

I dont necessarily have any faith in this governments ABC departments since 911 was either an inside job or at bar minimum, allowed to happen. But Frostys concerns shouldnt be taken lightly.

Ariz. Muslim leaders face increased FBI scrutiny
Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:56 PM

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

Source:
The Arizona Republic
http://www.arizonarepublic.com/

Ariz. Muslim leaders face increased FBI scrutiny
http://tinyurl.com/55yfsl

Ariz. Muslim leaders face increased FBI scrutiny
Monitoring grew after charity probe, 2 incidents

by Sean Holstege and Dennis Wagner - Nov. 16, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

The FBI has sharpened its scrutiny of some Phoenix-area Muslim leaders because of their links to two controversial incidents and a federal probe into the financing of terrorist groups.

No Arizonan has been accused of supporting terrorist groups or actions. However, a Mesa man was charged with lying to the FBI during the financing investigation.

The events that triggered the stepped-up scrutiny were the federal probe into a Muslim charity accused of funneling money to the Palestinian group Hamas; a target-shooting episode in Phoenix this year involving a large group of Muslim men and boys firing hundreds of rounds from AK-47s and other guns; and the high-profile removal in 2006 of six Arizona-bound imams from a jetliner after passengers and crew complained of their behavior.

Although some Islamic leaders say they understand the scrutiny, they also view it as another sign that innocent Muslims unjustly fall under suspicion because of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

"Whoever did Sept. 11, go after them and see who they are. I'm not going to pay for them. I'm not going to be guilty," said Marwan Sadeddin, one of the Valley imams who sued US Airways after being removed from a jetliner in Minneapolis. Like the others, he was questioned by FBI agents after the incident, in addition to being questioned about the arrested Mesa man.

The FBI is monitoring the family and community ties among Valley residents involved in the jetliner, shooting and charity probes, said John Lewis, who runs the FBI's Arizona office.

"All of these things come on our scope," said Lewis, the agency's former head of counterterrorism operations.

The FBI routinely watches communities and groups that show patterns of radicalism seen in terrorism cases in the U.S. and Europe; those include radical Islamic theology, anti-Western political rhetoric and fundraising tied to terrorist groups.

Lewis declined to discuss any details of the agency's monitoring activities.

The only Arizonan arrested by the FBI is Akram Musa Abdallah of Mesa. He was indicted by a grand jury in August on one count of lying to FBI agents. The government contended in court documents that Abdallah falsely told agents he had not raised money in the 1990s for the Holy Land Foundation, a Muslim charity that President Bush shut down in 2001.

Five founders of the Texas-based charity are on trial in Dallas on charges of steering $12 million to Hamas after the U.S. declared it a terrorist group.

M. Zuhdi Jasser, a Phoenix physician and Muslim who founded an organization to counter radical Islamic teachings, said Abdallah's arrest, the target-shooting episode and what he says are the imams' extreme views bear vigilance.

"You can't help wonder where this is going," he added.

Target shooting

Shortly before noon on a sunny Sunday in March, two Toyota SUVs rolled to a stop along a dirt road in north Phoenix.

About 20 young Muslim males climbed out, armed with assault rifles, a shotgun, a sniper rifle and handguns. The location near Happy Valley Road and 51st Avenue is a desert recreation site for off-road motorists, hikers and bikers, dozens of whom were enjoying the spring-like weather.

For more than an hour, the shooters blasted away at a granite rock and empty cans in front of a hill.

Officials estimate the fusillade totaled 500 to 1,000 rounds. Some shooters left before police arrived and detained 10 adults and five boys, including an 11-year-old.

The young men and boys told officers the weapons belonged to their parents. They said they were not aware it was illegal to use firearms in the residential area.

Six were arrested and charged with felony weapons violations in Maricopa County Superior Court. Among them were the 20- and 21-year-old sons of two imams at Phoenix-area mosques, as well as the 20-year-old son of Abdallah.

Phoenix police then notified the Arizona Counter Terrorism Center, a clearinghouse for intelligence, and the case was referred to the FBI, Lewis confirmed. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was called to trace the guns, its Arizona chief said.

Soliman Saadeldin, brother of one of the imams on the jetliner and a board member at the Islamic Community Center of Phoenix, was not surprised by the reaction.

"Twenty Muslims? Of course the FBI, the CIA and the White House would be worried," Saadeldin said.

Valley Islamic leaders were furious at the youngsters, he added, knowing how the incident might be perceived.

"I'm one of those who got mad at them. (But) they went over there just to have fun shooting. ... It's showing off more than anything else," Saadeldin said.

He described the target shooting as merely bad judgment by a group of young guys out for a good time.

The Abdallah case

The FBI's scrutiny of Abdallah came to light in January 2007, when agents raided his Mesa house and loaded what a neighbor said was two vans full of evidence.

Court records show that Abdallah, a 54-year-old Palestinian, denied during interrogation that he had been a fundraiser for the Holy Land Foundation during the 1990s, when the Islamic charity could still legally receive donations.

At the time of the raid, federal investigators were pursuing a criminal case against the foundation based on allegations that it had channeled money to Palestinian terrorists. The organization had been banned after the 9/11 attacks.

The Abdallah case points to the FBI's continued interest in Arizonans who have raised money for any charity suspected of supporting militant groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah.

For many years, several mosques in Phoenix and Tucson legally raised money for the Holy Land Foundation, which was the largest Muslim charity in the United States.

Islamic civil-rights groups argue that Muslim Americans donated to the charities to support hospitals and orphanages in the West Bank and Gaza. Although Hamas and Hezbollah have organized attacks against Israeli civilians, their humanitarian missions are central to Palestinians' fight for survival, civil-rights groups say.

The federal government charged the foundation's leaders with raising $12 million for Hamas. The first trial in Dallas ended in October 2007 with a deadlocked jury, a stunning setback for the government's biggest-ever terrorism financing case. A new trial has gone to the jury.

Abdallah is not a witness or defendant in that case. But as the FBI looked into Holy Land Foundation contributions, he was indicted in August on one count of lying about the fundraising to federal agents. An FBI tactical squad swarmed into a northwest Phoenix cafe to arrest him. Abdallah pleaded not guilty and was released without bail. No trial date has been set.

Abdallah, a naturalized citizen who arrived in the country in the late 1970s, did not return calls.

His 20-year-old son, Saiaf, is one of the half-dozen suspects facing felony charges from the target shooting. The younger Abdallah declined to comment except to say, "In the past five to six years, Muslims have been falsely accused of many things."

Controversial imams

The saga of the six traveling imams touched off a national controversy and attracted federal scrutiny. Much of the focus has been on the group's spokesman, Omar Shahin.

Shahin, who lives in Phoenix and presides over the North American Imams Foundation, led the Arizona delegation of six imams to its conference in Minneapolis in 2006. After boarding the return flight to Phoenix, passengers and crew reported that the men chanted loudly to Allah and spoke angrily about President Bush and America's war in Iraq.

All six imams were handcuffed and later interrogated, then released with no charges. US Airways banned the men from future flights.

Shahin led a news conference to condemn prejudice against Muslims. The imams later sued the airline, airport police and an FBI agent, claiming they had been degraded and humiliated unlawfully. US Airways officials have said they acted appropriately. The lawsuit is ongoing.

Shahin's involvement was one factor that drew the FBI's attention to the case and intensified its interest in Muslims' activities in Arizona.

A strident scholar of Islamic law and prolific charity fundraiser, the 47-year-old Shahin had been under the FBI's microscope before but has never been accused of wrongdoing.

In the late 1980s, Shahin served as imam at the Islamic Center of Tucson, where he headed a Muslim youth group. The mosque was a hub for adherents to the radical Wahhabi school of Islam, some of whom later became important aides to Osama bin Laden in the al-Qaida terrorist group.

Weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, Shahin, a Jordanian-born naturalized citizen, said he did not believe Muslims were responsible for destroying the World Trade Center and questioned the accuracy of the FBI's list of hijackers.

While in Tucson, Shahin raised money for the Holy Land Foundation before the group was outlawed. He also was a fundraiser for the Illinois-based KindHearts Foundation, which the government shut down last year for alleged support of Hamas.

According to tax records, Shahin was a paid employee of a third charity, the Michigan-based Life and Relief Development Inc. In September 2006, FBI counter-terrorism agents seized $134,000 in cash from the home of the charity's founder as part of a fraud case related to the Iraqi oil-for-food scandal. The charity remains open.

Shahin has served as a Muslim community liaison with the FBI and the Phoenix police. A book released by Shahin last year advocated that Muslims living in Western society follow a strict version of conservative Sharia law.

"A Muslim must try his best to abide by the rulings of Sharia whenever possible as much as he can. He should not allow himself to be liable to those western laws that contradict the clear-cut Islamic rulings," Shahin wrote.

Throughout the book, Shahin quotes an extremist Islamic scholar who studied under the man widely credited with inspiring al-Qaida. The scholar was a speaker at Holy Land Foundation events, prosecutors in the Dallas case said in court this year. They showed jurors photos of the man with Hamas and Hezbollah leaders and in videos preaching to kill Jews.

Shahin declined to comment in detail on his writings, the jetliner incident or the fundraising case. He is the father of one of the young men arrested in the Phoenix target shooting, Oday Shahin, 20. Another imam stopped in Minneapolis, Mahmoud Sulaiman, 51, a Syrian native, also has a son who was at the scene of the target shooting but was not arrested, a Phoenix police report stated.

Shahin and his son share other connections with people involved in events that drew the FBI's interest. Omar and Oday Shahin work with a third imam from the plane, Didmar Faja, a 28-year-old Albanian, at a conservative Islamic school in south Phoenix. Saiaf Abdallah, son of Akram Abdallah, accused of lying to the FBI, also works there, and his mother is a board member.

Shahin declined to comment except to say that his son's target-shooting arrest is "no big deal" and to caution against drawing unfair conclusions. "All I want to say is there is no connection between these things."

Civil libertarians, Muslim advocates and Valley imams all point out that even extreme political views don't equate to potential violence.

Marwan Sadeddin said the nation is teeming with Americans who hate President Bush's policies. So why can't he despise U.S. support for Israel, condemn terrorism and love America at the same time?

"The foreign policy is wrong," Sadeddin said. "That's my personal opinion. That doesn't mean I'm going to try to change it by force. I'm using my constitutional right to think the way I like."
14. reckless G | November 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am

Frosty, from reading your article in the latest Adventure Cyclist magazine http://adventurecycling.org/mag/, I would conclude that you’re very capable of feeling compassion for the struggles of humanity, so your uncharitable attitude toward those who strive to make a better life by immigrating to America seems incongruous to say the least.

I guess where we differ on this topic is that where you tend to be exclusive, I am more inclusive. I have a hard time believing that privileges should be granted to people by virtue of their birthplace and that our culture should be preserved from dilution by “others.” American culture is what it is today because of the introduction of various cultures. Exotic food, speech, music and comedic entertainment have been incorporated into American culture. Not once in our history has a large influx of immigrants “taken over” and replaced our culture and language with theirs. So I don’t get how the Mexicans and Muslims constitute such a radical threat to our way of life.

I do however agree with both you and infowars that population growth is a problem. There is no doubt that modern technology has allowed the human population to burgeon beyond the capacity of the natural world to sustain it. I see this as not so much a U.S. immigration issue as a global phenomenon.

I’m of the mind that things will self correct, as the tide of illegal immigrants from Mexico has reversed now that our economy has gone sour. At some point the planet will not be able to sustain the current human population and we will find ourselves struggling to survive. When that happens, I hope we can band together to help each other regardless of our ethnicity, religion, or political views.
15. infowars.com | November 28th, 2008 at 10:07 am

"I hope we can band together to help each other regardless of our ethnicity, religion, or political views."

Well those millions and milions of criminal illegals in and out of prison dont share your views of peaceful change.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=IOe5uYFcXzY
16. reckless G | November 28th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

Shame on you infowars for falling for this obvious piece of hate propaganda. This is the same kind of crap that is used to promote hatred of the Palestinians.

You're supposed to be the one who sees through the smokescreen they constantly set up to manipulate us. Can't you see that when you oppress and provoke and spew hatred at people, there is a backlash? And that backlash is used by the powers to justify more hatred and violence toward the victim. Whether it's Palestinians being provoked to violence by Israeli brutality or Mexicans being provoked to protest in the streets against anti-immigrant hatred, this type of propaganda video only reinforces the cycle of violence and hate.

If you respect me at all, as you say, you will take a long hard look at the way they are manipulating you to hate your brothers. We need to unite against those that try to divide us, not fall prey to their plan to set us against each other while they plunder our treasure and kill our children.

Someday those protesting Latinos may be all that stand between us and a brutal totalitarian regime. I'm surprised and disappointed that you can't see that.
17. Frosty Wooldridge | November 28th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

Okay, it looks like this kid started a bit of a firestorm on AspenPost! Indeed, yes, I have written for Adventure Cyclist over the years with my world travels. I've written some really fun bicycle adventure books. And yes, it may look like I'm harsh, however, I've seen what's coming and it will be much harsher than anyone understands as to our energy, climate change and water shortage crisis.

We're in a LOT of trouble and so is all of humanity. We need to stop taking on more bodies via immigration to make our situation worse for our own citizens. We need to close our borders to all immigration in order to deal with our own problems instead of magnifying them by 2.4 million added immigrants annually. We cannot keep it up, but the world grows by 77 million more people annually, so there is no end to human misery or numbers. What we need to do is send them birth control and send them help to solve their core problem: hyper-population growth. If we don't do that, we're all screwed.

This "Long Emergency" is coming at us faster than a brakeless freight train. It's going to get ugly, then uglier as folks fight for food, water, and survival. We need to prepare our civilization rather than trying to solve all those other civilizations that keep overpopulating themselves into their current human overload. No one will save us when this thing hits, and it WILL hit!
www.transitiontowns.org www.numbersusa.com

Actually, I am a very compassionate man BECAUSE of my extensive world travels. And, I am very proactive. I work my tail off, and speak to radio, TV and print to gain exposure as to what we face. This is not a game; we either solve this population dilemma or Darwin will solve it for us. Darwin's way makes me look like the leader of a Sunday picnic for 1st graders!

Kindest regards from a kind man who rides his bicycle all over the planet. www.frostywooldridge.com
18. infowars.com | November 28th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

again, im not talking about immigrants or Mexicans Sue.

Im talking about illegals. PERIOD

And, Im certainly not oppressing or provoking these illegals, I just want them the F out of this country like 80%+ of the people here do, including the legal Americans with Spanish heritage.

Not only do these illegals want our jobs, they want the land.

google LaRaza and MEChA see what you call "smokescreen"

MEChA and the La Raza movement teach that Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon and parts of Washington State make up an area known as "Aztlan" -- a fictional ancestral homeland of the Aztecs before Europeans arrived in North America. As such, it belongs to the followers of MEChA. These are all areas America should surrender to "La Raza" once enough immigrants, legal or illegal, enter to claim a majority, as in Los Angeles. The current borders of the United States will simply be extinguished.

This plan is what is referred to as the "Reconquista" or reconquest, of the Western U.S.

But it won't end with territorial occupation and secession. The final plan for the La Raza movement includes the ethnic cleansing of Americans of European, African, and Asian descent out of "Aztlan."

It is past time for all Americans to know what is at the root of this outrageous behavior, and the extent to which the nation is at risk because of "La Raza" -- The Race and MEChA.
19. reckless G | November 28th, 2008 at 9:01 pm

Frosty,

I too am an adventure cyclist with approx. 15,000 miles under my wheels. I understand your concern for what’s coming as I’ve read Kunstler’s book also. I just don’t think that anti-immigration legislation or enforcement is the answer to mitigating the coming crisis.

From the dawn of time, people have migrated toward better opportunities for survival. As populations increased, territorial wars resulted. Apparently we haven’t evolved very far. We still haven’t learned how to just get along with each other and practice tolerance and compassion for those not born under our flag.

To me the view that we have to protect OUR people and what’s OURS is a primitive idea and can only lead to bloodshed and misery. I would rather share what I have with others and hope that if the situation were reversed, they would share what they have with me. This is the attitude I carry with me on bike tour and I’ve met many wonderful people who’ve helped me in times of need. I would do the same for them, or for anyone who came to me for help. I don’t see why we can’t do that as a nation, help those in need.

To that end and to you infowars, if illegals are the only problem and not legal immigration, then the answer is simple; make the process to become a legal citizen faster and easier. Then people wouldn’t have to become criminals in order to seek a better life in America. And if they were legal citizens then we’d be able to track them, tax them, and keep them under the watchful eye of the U.S. government just like the rest of us. There, problem solved!

As for the Latino groups that want to “take back the land,” they are an infinitesimally small fraction of the Latino population. Be careful with using them as the example for the whole population. That’s what people do with Palestinians. They try to portray the tiny fraction that want to destroy Israel and take back the land as the norm. This simply is not the case. It’s just disgusting hateful propaganda.

The vast majority of immigrants legal or otherwise aren’t criminals, terrorists, boogeymen, or monsters. They’re just people trying to do the best they can for themselves and their families. My sister-in-law is an immigrant. My daughter-in-law is an immigrant. My husband’s grandparents were immigrants. My great grandparents were immigrants. Where would I be without immigration to America? I wouldn’t have had the fortune to be born here and I might be trying to come here to live and people like you would be trying to stop me.

When in doubt, I always rely on The Golden Rule; Do unto others as you would want done to you. If you were in their shoes, would you really want to be denied access to American citizenship, or made to wait years to get in, or be hated and feared once you got here? Have some compassion!
20. infowars.com | November 28th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

"they are an infinitesimally small fraction of the Latino population. Be careful with using them as the example for the whole population."

Small fraction, Sue???

58% of All Mexicans Say U.S. Southwest Belongs to Mexico

Even worse, many Mexican immigrants are claiming that the U.S. was theirs to begin with, and we stole it from them...

A majority of Mexicans claim that their country rightfully owns much of the southwestern United States, while most Americans believe Washington should adopt stricter immigration standards and deploy U.S. troops along the border, a new poll says.

According to a just-published survey conducted by Zogby International, the polling firm found that a majority of Mexicans say the U.S. southwest "rightfully belongs to Mexico," and that Mexican citizens should be able to come into those areas freely, without U.S. permission.

The poll found that 58 percent of Mexicans agree with the statement, "The territory of the United States' southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico." -SOURCE http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27941

Where will this all end? The result is inevitable ... the United States will increasingly deteriorate to a third world nation in a matter of decades. With hospitals disappearing, health care costs skyrocketing, companies offering fewer benefits to employees, personal bankruptcies soaring in 2005, and illegal immigrants bleeding the economy to death--the future of America can only be bleak! The average American doesn't care because it hasn't affected them YET. The reason why is because the Federal DEBT is absorbing all the costs! But WE taxpaying CITIZENS have to pay all that money back!!! The Federal Reserve (private bankers) are lending hundreds-of-billions at a time to our reckless and irresponsible politicians, who shouldn't be borrowing anything. There is coming a day when the U.S. government will have no choice but to default on their loans from other nations. The day will come when the Federal Reserve (private bankers) decide not to loan the U.S. government any more money. At this time, control of the U.S. will be confiscated by the CFR and the United Nations. Just as the fool who thinks he's rich because he has a credit card, American's are idiots to think that our government can recklessly and wildly spend money like there's no tomorrow, without there being severe repercussions and consequences in the future for our children.

The southwestern states do NOT belong to Mexico! I am not against legal immigrants; but, illegals should go back to where they came from. To say otherwise is to spit on America's citizens, which is exactly what many illegal immigrants do.

If it's illegal, it's ILLEGAL! To allow illegal aliens to remain in the U.S. sends the wrong message to future wannabe illegal immigrants. The message is clear ... "The government in Washington is betraying the American people by leaving the borders wide open, so bring the whole family."
21. reckless G | November 28th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

And again I say: if illegalls are the problem, then let's just make them legal. Do you agree?
22. infowars.com | November 29th, 2008 at 9:22 am

I wish I could join you here Sue, but Ive lived in a community of illegals They turned it from a nice place to live and raise your children, to 98% illegal cesspool in less than 10 years. It was a trailer park I lived in for 15 years.

They showed no respect for their neighbors, for themselves or for life in general.

If you go through this park now it looks like a third world country, with broken cars, glass, and even feces in the road. They tried to get a policeman to live there to "change things" he didnt last 3 months and moved out in disgust and he was even Spanish American. They vandalized his property and threatened his life.

Other neighbors were forced to sell their trucks to this mafia if it was an older Ford or Chevy, those that didnt sell them, were vandalized too.

My sons bike was stolen, we took a walk through the park and, wow, it was in a yard of 3 generations of non speaking English fellows with brown skin, in one trailer, of course it was stripped to the bone and worthless. My fence and trailer was driven into by a illegal drunk with no insurance, luckily the area he hit was not my sons room where he slept. Its like bumper cars there with all the drunk illegals driving around with no insurance, DL or cares in the world.

I could go on and on and on with stories of rape, drug dealing and thefts by your so called brothers, that the cops do nothing about.

I have lived in this valley for over 22 years and never scene such chaos, vile, criminal atrocities as ive scene with illegals, even the Spanish Americans moved out.

So I cant agree with you Sue, and people are starting to Just say No to illegals and their BS and distruction of sanity.

The only smokescreen I see is the one you and the other 20% use to pretend illegals are making this world a better place, exploiting them for their companies, or used by the elites whos only goal is to ruin this country and turn it into the Americas.
23. reckless G | November 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

I'm sorry for your bad experience, but it only serves to prove my point exactly. If the problem is that they are illegal (and not because they're Mexican) and therefore hard to control or prosecute, then just make them legal. Then like us, they'll be subject to our laws, including providing insurance and DWI prosecution.

But I don't see the problems you described as exclusive to illegals. It sure sounds to me like you resent the type of lifestyle they brought with them from their native culture, where they've not been taught the type of social and environmental etiquette we are raised with. If that is so, then it points to prejudice and intolerance on your part.

Every immigrant population suffers from these same stereotypes. Americans complained that Italians were dirty, drunk, criminals, the Irish were dirty, drunk, criminals, now the Latinos are dirty, drunk, criminals.

If history proves true, then eventually, the Latinos will be absorbed into our culture, they will lose much of their own, and they will adopt the squeaky clean lifestyle of upstanding American citizens.

Be patient, grasshopper.
24. Mitch Mulhall | December 1st, 2008 at 11:54 pm

[Be patient, grasshopper...]
25. infowars.com | December 4th, 2008 at 7:16 am

I cant agree with you Sue, but Obama does.....

From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, President, Grassfire.org Alliance

Barack Obama is setting up his administration to be the most radical, pro-amnesty presidency in history.

He just announced that Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano will be his new Director of Homeland Security. Napolitano has been a vocal opponent of the border fence.

This came on the heels of Obama’s appointment of Cecelia Munoz,
a high-ranking La Raza executive, to a key post. Munoz has been in charge of La Raza's legislative and lobbying efforts.
She will now be Obama’s Director of Intergovernmental Affairs and will serve as the chief administration liaison with stat and local governments.

Munoz headed La Raza's campaign to give driver's licenses to illegals and pass the amnesty bill, the DREAM Act and the AgJOBS
amnesty. The message is clear...

Please go here to join the
235,392 citizens who have Joined The Resistance:

http://www.grassfire.net/r.asp?u=13854&RID=16070190